Manual Transmissions Losing Grounds to Automatics
09-15-04, 12:22 PM
#16
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Originally posted by time4lexus
Ah come on, let people do what they want. Not everyone's after a "FEEL, the TOTAL EXPERIENCE that a manual provides for its DRIVER," that's what girls are for.
Ah come on, let people do what they want. Not everyone's after a "FEEL, the TOTAL EXPERIENCE that a manual provides for its DRIVER," that's what girls are for.
Originally posted by fvellani
I completely agree with WantANewLex...before last summer, I'd never driven a manual car. But when I got my new car last September, there was only one concrete requirement that I had: it HAD to be manual. Forget rwd, horsepower, leather seats, whatever, it HAD to be manual.
It makes the car so much more enjoyable to drive, not to mention the driver is in complete control. And driving a manual brings a sense of accomplishment, in that you have to have the skill and the coordination, the brains, to be able to synchronise your 2 feet over 3 pedals, to provide for exactly the type of ride you want, whether it be trying to make the ride as smooth as possible, or banging out the fastest shifts you can to maximize your speed, or trying to get the best possible gas mileage. You're in complete, absolute, total control. One lapse of concentration, and you're grinding the gears or stalling the car.
These are the reasons why I chose a Mazda Protege, manual transmission. Its so much fun to drive, and a huge part of that is because I'm rowing the gears myself. Bumper-to-bumper traffic? Just another challenge, another skill, to master. Driving fast in the twisties? Yet another skill to master. Making the shifts as smooth as possible so your grandmother will be comfortable? Yup, same thing.
Driving a manual makes you grow as a driver too. You have to actually pay attention to whats going on, what you're doing, what your car is doing. You can't sit on the phone and chat for an hour, or eat your lunch, or do your hair, or whatever. I think that one becomes a much more aware driver when driving a manual car. Not to mention, there's so much new stuff to learn vs. an automatic. Double-clutching, heel-toeing, the feeling of accomplishment that you get when you nail the perfect heel-toe, where the car doesn't even rock the tiniest bit, you can't get that feeling from an automatic, not a regular slushbox, not a Tiptronic, not even a paddle-shifter.
All that said, its a bit hard for me to see why anyone would buy anything other than a manual
I completely agree with WantANewLex...before last summer, I'd never driven a manual car. But when I got my new car last September, there was only one concrete requirement that I had: it HAD to be manual. Forget rwd, horsepower, leather seats, whatever, it HAD to be manual.
It makes the car so much more enjoyable to drive, not to mention the driver is in complete control. And driving a manual brings a sense of accomplishment, in that you have to have the skill and the coordination, the brains, to be able to synchronise your 2 feet over 3 pedals, to provide for exactly the type of ride you want, whether it be trying to make the ride as smooth as possible, or banging out the fastest shifts you can to maximize your speed, or trying to get the best possible gas mileage. You're in complete, absolute, total control. One lapse of concentration, and you're grinding the gears or stalling the car.
These are the reasons why I chose a Mazda Protege, manual transmission. Its so much fun to drive, and a huge part of that is because I'm rowing the gears myself. Bumper-to-bumper traffic? Just another challenge, another skill, to master. Driving fast in the twisties? Yet another skill to master. Making the shifts as smooth as possible so your grandmother will be comfortable? Yup, same thing.
Driving a manual makes you grow as a driver too. You have to actually pay attention to whats going on, what you're doing, what your car is doing. You can't sit on the phone and chat for an hour, or eat your lunch, or do your hair, or whatever. I think that one becomes a much more aware driver when driving a manual car. Not to mention, there's so much new stuff to learn vs. an automatic. Double-clutching, heel-toeing, the feeling of accomplishment that you get when you nail the perfect heel-toe, where the car doesn't even rock the tiniest bit, you can't get that feeling from an automatic, not a regular slushbox, not a Tiptronic, not even a paddle-shifter.
All that said, its a bit hard for me to see why anyone would buy anything other than a manual
09-15-04, 12:31 PM
#17
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Originally posted by wantAnewLex
Loosen up??? He meant that jokingly. Of course there are people who are physically (mentally?) unable to drive a manual, those too lazy, and those who "don't want to bother."
I also made a strong argument for manuals, so I think both sides are well-represented here and give a clear overall perspective.
Loosen up??? He meant that jokingly. Of course there are people who are physically (mentally?) unable to drive a manual, those too lazy, and those who "don't want to bother."
I also made a strong argument for manuals, so I think both sides are well-represented here and give a clear overall perspective.
09-15-04, 12:41 PM
#18
I grew up driving manual from an on-the-column 3, to floor 5 SPD. AT's are great for traffic yet not always appropriate for certain driving conditions. For me, I could go either way. With the LS, an AT is appropriate. The Celica, a 5 or 6 SPD would be nice...yet if I could integrate a steering wheel shifted AT, I'd do it.
Given todays eat, drink, cell phone distracted drivers who want that hand to do something else, I can see why. The car is a mobile office to continue work or social activities.
Given todays eat, drink, cell phone distracted drivers who want that hand to do something else, I can see why. The car is a mobile office to continue work or social activities.
09-15-04, 12:45 PM
#19
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Originally posted by mmarshall
Yes....you come from a state ( South Carolina ) that is not terribly over-developed, stop-and-go, or traffic-clogged like us here in the D.C area or all the posters in Southern California. But there are MANY areas in the U.S........and Washington-Baltimore and Southern California are the two worst.....where a stick would be virtually unthinkable.
Yes....you come from a state ( South Carolina ) that is not terribly over-developed, stop-and-go, or traffic-clogged like us here in the D.C area or all the posters in Southern California. But there are MANY areas in the U.S........and Washington-Baltimore and Southern California are the two worst.....where a stick would be virtually unthinkable.
I had the money, I'd fly you down here and then have you come along with me on a typical morning drive to school. We have an interstate here called I-26 that's constantly under construction. Traffic crawls along from 0-30-20-40-20-10-0-50-30-0-10-0-20-0-70, etc. and I have to merge across 4 lanes.
Is "stop and go" different depending on location? You tell me: my 20-mile commute usually takes a hour. I never clutch in and out fewer than 75 times. Does that satisfy you? God, I wish I had one of those headrest cams so I could record my entire trip...
By the way, I don't "come from South Carolina."
09-15-04, 12:47 PM
#20
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Originally posted by RA40
I grew up driving manual from an on-the-column 3, to floor 5 SPD. AT's are great for traffic yet not always appropriate for certain driving conditions. For me, I could go either way. With the LS, an AT is appropriate. The Celica, a 5 or 6 SPD would be nice...yet if I could integrate a steering wheel shifted AT, I'd do it.
Given todays eat, drink, cell phone distracted drivers who want that hand to do something else, I can see why. The car is a mobile office to continue work or social activities.
I grew up driving manual from an on-the-column 3, to floor 5 SPD. AT's are great for traffic yet not always appropriate for certain driving conditions. For me, I could go either way. With the LS, an AT is appropriate. The Celica, a 5 or 6 SPD would be nice...yet if I could integrate a steering wheel shifted AT, I'd do it.
Given todays eat, drink, cell phone distracted drivers who want that hand to do something else, I can see why. The car is a mobile office to continue work or social activities.
As a BMW engineer once said, "This is DRIVING facility, not a DINING facility."
10-02-04, 12:17 PM
#21
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This thread best describes my dilema. Having driven MT equiped cars all my life, the thought of HAVING to get an AT eventually has come up. I plan on getting a 4 door RWD mid-sized reliable sedan (with decent fuel economy - no V8) sometime next year and while I would truly like to have an MT the choices are and will be very limited (and according to the article will lessen with each year). I've been lurking here for quite some time since I thought that if I had to give up on the MT idea then I'd just get a GS300 (while holding out hope there'd be an MT option with the new 06 model).
As of now the only candidates that pass my test are the G35, Caddy CTS and BMW 530. Price is not really an issue although I do have this psychlogical barrier around $40K (regardless of how much money I have I'd have a hard time justifying anything above that much money for a depreciating asset to meet basic transportation needs)
Thankfully for the foreseable future even if I get an AT car I'll always have my daily "real SMG" equiped vehicle - my bike (see avatar). It will be a very long time before any kind of AT makes into any kind of bike.
As of now the only candidates that pass my test are the G35, Caddy CTS and BMW 530. Price is not really an issue although I do have this psychlogical barrier around $40K (regardless of how much money I have I'd have a hard time justifying anything above that much money for a depreciating asset to meet basic transportation needs)
Thankfully for the foreseable future even if I get an AT car I'll always have my daily "real SMG" equiped vehicle - my bike (see avatar). It will be a very long time before any kind of AT makes into any kind of bike.
10-02-04, 02:33 PM
#22
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Originally posted by biker
This thread best describes my dilema. Having driven MT equiped cars all my life, the thought of HAVING to get an AT eventually has come up. I plan on getting a 4 door RWD mid-sized reliable sedan (with decent fuel economy - no V8) sometime next year and while I would truly like to have an MT the choices are and will be very limited (and according to the article will lessen with each year). I've been lurking here for quite some time since I thought that if I had to give up on the MT idea then I'd just get a GS300 (while holding out hope there'd be an MT option with the new 06 model).
As of now the only candidates that pass my test are the G35, Caddy CTS and BMW 530. Price is not really an issue although I do have this psychlogical barrier around $40K (regardless of how much money I have I'd have a hard time justifying anything above that much money for a depreciating asset to meet basic transportation needs)
Thankfully for the foreseable future even if I get an AT car I'll always have my daily "real SMG" equiped vehicle - my bike (see avatar). It will be a very long time before any kind of AT makes into any kind of bike.
This thread best describes my dilema. Having driven MT equiped cars all my life, the thought of HAVING to get an AT eventually has come up. I plan on getting a 4 door RWD mid-sized reliable sedan (with decent fuel economy - no V8) sometime next year and while I would truly like to have an MT the choices are and will be very limited (and according to the article will lessen with each year). I've been lurking here for quite some time since I thought that if I had to give up on the MT idea then I'd just get a GS300 (while holding out hope there'd be an MT option with the new 06 model).
As of now the only candidates that pass my test are the G35, Caddy CTS and BMW 530. Price is not really an issue although I do have this psychlogical barrier around $40K (regardless of how much money I have I'd have a hard time justifying anything above that much money for a depreciating asset to meet basic transportation needs)
Thankfully for the foreseable future even if I get an AT car I'll always have my daily "real SMG" equiped vehicle - my bike (see avatar). It will be a very long time before any kind of AT makes into any kind of bike.
As for Lexus and manual transmissions...That ship left a long time ago, and it's probably not going to come back in any significant way (we're barely limping along with the IS 5-speed right now)...
10-02-04, 03:00 PM
#23
Originally posted by wantAnewLex
I'd definitely go with a G35 sedan 6-speed. Wowza, that would be nice.
As for Lexus and manual transmissions...That ship left a long time ago, and it's probably not going to come back in any significant way (we're barely limping along with the IS 5-speed right now)...
I'd definitely go with a G35 sedan 6-speed. Wowza, that would be nice.
As for Lexus and manual transmissions...That ship left a long time ago, and it's probably not going to come back in any significant way (we're barely limping along with the IS 5-speed right now)...
And its not hard to drive stick and talk on a cellphone or drink a 44 ounce Cherry Limeaid at the same time. Hell, I do it all the time. You just have to know what you're doin
ANd for the record, I will never buy an automatic until I become so old that it hurts to shift.
10-02-04, 09:35 PM
#24
I wont ever get rid of my 6 speed SS. I catch a lot crap for drag racing a 6 speed, but then again, i get a lot of props for being able to drag race a 6 speed. Sure, i could probably go faster with an auto with a high stall... but theres somethin about sidestepping a clutch at 6k rpm, going wheels up, then going wheels up on the 1-2 shift... Its a feeling an automatic could never give me.
10-02-04, 10:15 PM
#25
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Well a few things here:
1. Manuals are no longer cheaper than automatics. Back in the day, a manual was 1k less than an auto. Not anymore. Some cars, IT COSTS MORE!! Lol.
2. Barely any acceleration advantage. Look at AMG Benzs. All Autos. Absolute beasts. A manual used to knock a good second off a 0-60 run. Not anymore. We are talking even here.
3. No fuel economy difference. Again, with technology, both autos and manuals offer comparable MPG. Why buy a manual?
4. America and our terrible drivers and driving habits. THis is a place where we brag on how many cupholders we have. Can we eat in our car. Where can we put our cell phone. Can I read? We do everythign BUT drive. No one here wants a manual.
In all honesty, having a E-shift GS and a manual ES, if I can shift by a computer on the steering wheel, to hell with a manual. In driving a 540/6, yeah it was great driving a manual but i think soon...
Manuals will be more about something to talk about and brag about how "rare" it is. Instead of truly offering a benefit.
1. Manuals are no longer cheaper than automatics. Back in the day, a manual was 1k less than an auto. Not anymore. Some cars, IT COSTS MORE!! Lol.
2. Barely any acceleration advantage. Look at AMG Benzs. All Autos. Absolute beasts. A manual used to knock a good second off a 0-60 run. Not anymore. We are talking even here.
3. No fuel economy difference. Again, with technology, both autos and manuals offer comparable MPG. Why buy a manual?
4. America and our terrible drivers and driving habits. THis is a place where we brag on how many cupholders we have. Can we eat in our car. Where can we put our cell phone. Can I read? We do everythign BUT drive. No one here wants a manual.
In all honesty, having a E-shift GS and a manual ES, if I can shift by a computer on the steering wheel, to hell with a manual. In driving a 540/6, yeah it was great driving a manual but i think soon...
Manuals will be more about something to talk about and brag about how "rare" it is. Instead of truly offering a benefit.
10-03-04, 06:54 AM
#26
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Originally posted by 1SICKLEX
Well a few things here:
1. Manuals are no longer cheaper than automatics. Back in the day, a manual was 1k less than an auto. Not anymore. Some cars, IT COSTS MORE!! Lol.
2. Barely any acceleration advantage. Look at AMG Benzs. All Autos. Absolute beasts. A manual used to knock a good second off a 0-60 run. Not anymore. We are talking even here.
3. No fuel economy difference. Again, with technology, both autos and manuals offer comparable MPG. Why buy a manual?
4. America and our terrible drivers and driving habits. THis is a place where we brag on how many cupholders we have. Can we eat in our car. Where can we put our cell phone. Can I read? We do everythign BUT drive. No one here wants a manual.
In all honesty, having a E-shift GS and a manual ES, if I can shift by a computer on the steering wheel, to hell with a manual. In driving a 540/6, yeah it was great driving a manual but i think soon...
Manuals will be more about something to talk about and brag about how "rare" it is. Instead of truly offering a benefit.
Well a few things here:
1. Manuals are no longer cheaper than automatics. Back in the day, a manual was 1k less than an auto. Not anymore. Some cars, IT COSTS MORE!! Lol.
2. Barely any acceleration advantage. Look at AMG Benzs. All Autos. Absolute beasts. A manual used to knock a good second off a 0-60 run. Not anymore. We are talking even here.
3. No fuel economy difference. Again, with technology, both autos and manuals offer comparable MPG. Why buy a manual?
4. America and our terrible drivers and driving habits. THis is a place where we brag on how many cupholders we have. Can we eat in our car. Where can we put our cell phone. Can I read? We do everythign BUT drive. No one here wants a manual.
In all honesty, having a E-shift GS and a manual ES, if I can shift by a computer on the steering wheel, to hell with a manual. In driving a 540/6, yeah it was great driving a manual but i think soon...
Manuals will be more about something to talk about and brag about how "rare" it is. Instead of truly offering a benefit.
Yeah, I guess it's something to brag about.
10-03-04, 07:13 AM
#27
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The G35 6MT's are still a few tenth's of a second faster than the G35 auto's in 0-60 . . . & yes nothing can replace the feel & joy of driving a manual in a sporty car.
10-03-04, 07:23 AM
#28
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Due to the improving technology ... A/T cars can be faster and more economical than M/T cars.
I remember that a couple of years ago Audi was offering its A6 with 3 different types of transmission, the TipTronic/ traditional A/T , 6-speed M/T and their new CVT/ Multitronic A/T.
A leading German car magazine did a comparison (same engine, different transmission) and guess what ... the CVT beated the 6-speed and the Tiptronic both in acceleration and used the least fuel.
There are still some minor reliability issues for the CVT (and it cannot be used for high torque) but it is the future.
I remember that a couple of years ago Audi was offering its A6 with 3 different types of transmission, the TipTronic/ traditional A/T , 6-speed M/T and their new CVT/ Multitronic A/T.
A leading German car magazine did a comparison (same engine, different transmission) and guess what ... the CVT beated the 6-speed and the Tiptronic both in acceleration and used the least fuel.
There are still some minor reliability issues for the CVT (and it cannot be used for high torque) but it is the future.
10-03-04, 07:28 AM
#29
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Originally posted by SexySC
The G35 6MT's are still a few tenth's of a second faster than the G35 auto's in 0-60 . . . & yes nothing can replace the feel & joy of driving a manual in a sporty car.
The G35 6MT's are still a few tenth's of a second faster than the G35 auto's in 0-60 . . . & yes nothing can replace the feel & joy of driving a manual in a sporty car.
I was lined up beside one at the lights on the way to school last week, wasn't looking for a race or anything, but once the light turned he green, he stomped on it and just rocketed away!! I was quite impressed. Never really saw one in full-attack mode before. I would have lost that race BADLY.