That is what I don't understand. Fanboysz are acting like I am making this up. I didn't start the tranny re-call. I didn't start the lemon lists. I didn't decide to move production from Japan (1st gen which is ROCK SOLID and recommended as a great used car) to Ohio where they can't seem to glue a headliner to the roof of the car. I happen to have changed the oil in a TL (a person I consider a sister works for Honda Finance), best friend has a CL-S (went through tranny) another good friend went through 3 trannies in his CL (has a Maxima now) etc etc. I think I counted 5 people I know that DO NOT POST ON ANY FORUM that went through a tranny with Acura. So the problem is BIGGER than the forums.

No disrespect intended; but even that schedule sounds like more fun than my 10X10 Jr Executive Cubicle yet less fun than I initially imagined.

On Topic...I think that the tranny's are a "real" problem and hope that Acura gets that solved. The other things mentioned are for the most part what I would consider minor problems common with many first year models. I would still disagree that the TL is a bad car, or not a good value for the price. I would definately consider it a front runner in that price category.

Lets not forget that the GS's weren't perfect in 1998 either:
list of 1998 GS400 TSB's
AX001R-01 010525 Trunk - Retrofit Internal Release Kits
PG016-01 010504 Vehicle Identification Number - Replacement Plates
PG015-01 010504 Vehicle - Replacement Certification Labels
EG002-01 010427 EVAP System - Design/Operation/Diagnostics
NV005-01 010330 Glove Box - Rattling Noise
BO005-01 010323 Seat Belt - Revised Tongue Plate Stopper
BO003-01 010316 Headlamp - Service Parts Availability
AX001-01 010309 Internal Trunk Release - Retrofit Kits
ST001-01 010216 Steering Wheel Nut - Torque Standardization
AC001-01 010112 A/C Indicators - Malfunction
PG017-99 001224 Vehicle - Year 2000 Readiness Disclosure
EL008-99 001210 Engine Immobilizer System - Precautions
SS003-00 001208 Diagnostic Tester - Communication Error w/TIS
PG005-00 000721 Service Manual - Page Corrections
AC001-00 000701 A/C - Compressor Maintenance During Storage
EL003-00 000421 Distance Since Refueling Display - Inaccurate
ST002-00 000414 Steering Column - Slider Sub Assembly Available
NV005-00 000414 Center Seat Belt Retractor Cover - Rattle
PG001-00 000407 CA/50 State Certified Emission Control Label Ordering
AX001-00 000317 Towing - Dinghy Towing (Four Wheels On the Ground)
NV001-00 000107 Garage Door Opener - Rattle
NV003-00 000107 Glove Box - Rattle Noise
BO005-99 991224 Seat Belt Extender - Availability
BO004-99 991203 Moonroof - Creak Noise Reduction
SU001-99 990917 Wheel Balance - Adjustment Procedure
TC003-99 990910 A/T - Fluid Recommendations
SS007-99 990709 SST Program - Special Service Tools
SS004-99 990618 Wireless Recognition Codes - Alternate Register Method
SS006-99 990618 Scantool Immobilizer - Key Code Utility
EL005-99 990604 Power Moon Roof - Motor
PA002-99 990521 Paint - Refinish Formula Codes
PG010-99 990514 Service - Manual Corrections
BO002-99 990423 Glove Box Switch - Rattle Noise
SS001-99 990409 Diagnostic Tester - Customize Program Card Update
TC001-99 990409 Drive Shaft - Grease Revision
AU001-99 990402 AM Radio - Crosstalk Interference
AX003-99 990319 Dinghy Towing Guide - With Four Wheels on the Ground
EL002-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2795
EL003-99 990312 Antitheft - Troubleshooting Immobilizer DTC B2796
PG002-99 990205 Brakes - Publication Correction Information.
SS002-98 981211 Tools - Installing Rivet Nuts
NV018-98 981030 Instrument Panel Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV019-98 981030 Package Tray Trim Area - Squeaks & Rattles
NV020-98 981030 Glove Box Area - Squeak & Rattle Service Tips
NV021-98 981030 Interior - Squeaks/Rubbing Noise
AU003-98 981030 Radio - Inoperative In CD Mode
BR002-98 980909 Brakes - Hydraulic Pressure Switch R&R Corrections
AC003-98 980904 A/C - Soluction to General Malfunctions
BO004-98 980717 Seat Cover - Service For Side Airbag Equipped Vehicles
BO003-98 980703 Seat Belt - Extenders are Available
SS001-98 980626 Vehicle - Special Service Tools
ST003R-98 980619 Steering - Vibration/Flutter
TC003-98 980619 A/T - Fluid, Type T-IV Introduction
PG004-98 980605 Service Manual - Publication Correction Information
NHTSA98V080000 980601 Recall 98V080000: Improper VSC Operation
NHTSA98V080000 980519 Recall 98V080000: VSC Can Operate Improperly
BO002-98 980424 Door - Disassembly Precautions
BO001-98 980424 Seat Belt - Extenders Available
NV002-98 980417 Wind Noise Service Tips
EL006-98 980410 Tachometer - Incorrect Indication
EL004-98 980410 Wireless Door Lock Control - Programming
EL005-98 980410 Cigarette Lighter - Service
TC002-98 980213 ECM - MIL ON, DTC P0715 Set
EL001-98 980123 Engine Immobilizer - System Precautions
ST001-98 980109 Progressive Power Steering (PPS) - Manual Corrections
EL002-97 971201 Fuel Gauge - Incorrect Reading
EG007-97 971114 Serpentine Belt - Squealing Noise on Cold Start Up
PA00297 971114 Paint - Colors
SS002-97 971031 Customize Program Card - Version 1.0 Update
BO007-97 971024 Seat Belt - Extenders Availability
PG005-97 970919 Fuse - Installation During PDS
PG006-97 970719 License Plate - Installation During PDS
PG003-97 970718 Certification Labels - Replacement Policy
PG002-97 970321 Air Bag - Information Label On Glove Box Door
PG002-96 960405 Emission Control Label Order Form CA/50 State Certified
PG93-004 930514 A/C - Ozone Depleting Substance Caution Labels
PG93-003 930409 Vin Plates/Certification Labels - Replacement
PGI004 910913 Recycled Coolant - Usage Recommendations
BODY026 910816 Body - Permanent Type Protective Wax Coatings


Throw in a bad tranny, and we're not too far from the TL....

If the GS 300/400 was not the most reliable car in it's class for the past 5 or so years, maybe this would hold more weight.

No Lexus is perfect. Lexus just happens to make the cars nearest to no problems. And with TSBs, they can ben anything, like
PG002-97 970321 Air Bag - Information Label On Glove Box Door.

I remember I had to take my 98 GS in for some issue with the doorlock. They fixed it in an hour and never had an issue. We all know with Lexus sunroofs, the top crackles and pops with heat/cold.

But honestly, to say the GS is close to the TL in quality and execution is a huge s t r e t c h

Let me T R Y to get us back on-topic...

I have two coworkers who are in the market for a new car. Neither one is looking to buy immediately, but both are ready when the right vehicle comes along with the right deal. They are both looking for cars in the TL price range and feature set (luxury/near-luxury features, decent performance, four-door practicality without stodginess, etc.). They've both heard buzz about the new TL and are considering it, to varying degrees, in their comparison shopping.

One is a guy who drives a Volvo S60. He'd love an S60R but can't bring himself to take the big depreciation hit on his current car just to get the SAME car with a bigger engine. He loves my GS but doesn't want to spend the money for a 430, and can't see getting it with the 6-cylinder. He won't go for a 3-series or C-class because of poor reliability and how little you get for the price. The Saab 9-5 was briefly under consideration but he decided it's too boring. If the G35 sedan looked more like the coupe he'd be considering it. The IS is too "fast and furious" for him.

That pretty much leaves the TL. He didn't used to have it on his list because he thought the styling was boring--in his words, he'd never spend that much on a car that looked that plain. But that was before the new bodystyle came out, and now I'd place even money that he'll be driving one by the end of the year. He loves the aggressive new look and the unbeatable array of technology and features for the price.

My other coworker is a girl who loves her Accord but wants to step up in the world. She's waffling between a sporty coupe and a sedan, but is probably practical enough to stick with a 4-door. It's almost certain she'll be in a G35 by the end of the year. In a complete flip-flop from the other guy, she really liked the classy, conservative style of the old TL but won't even consider the new "testosterone-laden" one. It's simply too aggressive and manly for her tastes.

I've told both about the supposed transmission problems. Neither one cares--Acura has a far better than average reputation for quality and customer service, and they figure they'll be treated properly if a problem does materialize. So basically that didn't even enter into the equation for either one when deciding for or against the TL.

I am really beginning to like the looks of this car. Saw one Sat at the wheelshop with 19 in chrome wheels that looked nice. Saw one today that blew my mind. Had the new Lowenhart LSR's in silver. I know a lot of guys around here don't like them but I think those wheels looked great on it.

The TL is a GREAT LOOKING car. Minus these tranny glitches and FWD, I would be right in line for a 2004 6MT.

There is no doubt the 04 TL is a great looking car.

I like it, except the chopped off tail end,

mmarshall,

never meant to insult you my friend. How's the SC running?? the NSX is fantastic. I'm taking it to Pike's Peak International Raceway in a week or two for some high speed fun. I've about got it good and broke in now. It already has 2,700 miles!!! By the way, the Subaru Forrester is a fantastic car, wantanewlex. In Colorado, they are very popular and IMO, one of the best mud and snow vehicles there are. They just need a Forrester WRX model now. Hmmm.

TL styling is great. The only thing is that the TSX styling is VERY similar. I think there should have been more differentiation between the two cars. The guages are fantastic in the TL. I didn't think the stereo was as good as the ML I had in my SC430. I don't think most home stereos are as good as the Mark Levinson in the Lexus vehicles. Bose can't seem to make a good car stereo. The one I had in my Infiniti was fantastic, but that was 10 years ago. The Bose in my '04 NSX is terrible compared to the stereo in my VW Touareg.

The TL should be competitive in its price segment and provide Acura with some solid sales numbers. Good day.

yup, if it's rwd, i would really consider the 6 speed, it would be such a good combo

What I don't understand is that if Acura is such a piece of junk, why are their Consumer Reports ratings so high? I don't have the book right here with me (I'm on the road) but last I checked the car was as reliable if not more than Lexus. Rumor has it their service is PDG too.

JD Power on the otherhand sort of cracks me up. When I read about their "long term quality" it includes things like brake dust on wheels where the German cars lag because their wheels get more dusty than the Japanese models. The fact that that even figures into long term quality is just amazing.

Thats what im saying....basically, if there is thread where one person states they have a problem with the car, it means that all TL's are affected according to some people...

Dam I didn't know the gs had that many problems back in the day. I guess I wasn't paying attention. I was so press on finding an old Legend. I guess all cars have their first year problems. But Acura definitely need to fix the transmission problem. Since I have spent some time with the new TL, I truly feel it's a nice car.
FYI: The new TL doesn’t come with a Bose system. I think it's Acura/ELS® Premium 8-speaker Surround Sound System. I know it definitely sounds a lot better than my Bose system.

The CR database for repair indicies and problems and reliability forecasts is probably more accurate and realistic than the J.D. Power system....and I say that as a regular J.D. Power panelist myself. I rely on CR more than any other single publication to advise people on what car is reliable and what isn't. That is because the CR system deals with actual repair rates, problems, and recalls. The J.D. Power system deals with all kinds of non-repair specific issues thrown in that deal with customer satisfaction, personal opinions, etc.....
Now....having said that, it is interesting on what CR and J.D. Power both agree on....such as Toyota / Lexus, Honda / Acura, and Infiniti being generally the most reliable nameplates, the rapid fall from grace of both BMW and Mercedes, and the astounding rise in quality of both Hyundai and Kia....Hyundai more so.