In a different life I drove a 1988 Celica. IIRC it was rated at about 120hp from its 2.0 4cyl. It flew up Donner pass. Don't the new Prius ICEs have as much or more power? (not counting added battery power)

 

Ours was a 2004, it was very slow

 

115hp*, car weighs about 2600 pounds. Prius weighs ~3000 pounds and has 120hp but better torque versus your Celica. Comparable performance actually was your a manual transmission?

*unless you had the 3S-GE.

 

You are the one who is baffling me honestly. If the pack has charge the car can direct full power from the engine to the ground, draw the pack for max electric motor output, and draw the pack for AC at the same time.

The pack is a storage of power that means the engine doesn't have to directly drive the high volt items nearly ever. It's why the engine can be OFF and the AC still runs perfectly fine in a hybrid. It's not like a traditional car, it's the same as turning a normal car to accessory to use the radio. Engine is off and has nothing to do with powering the radio because it's using the store of power in the 12v battery.

This is the exact same thing but it's the HV system running the AC and when you demand full power ANY car that has a variable compressor will back off swash plate angle to allow maximal engine torque or in the case of a hybrid just run it anyway because the pack has enough capacity to run the motors and other HV items at the same time.

You own an EV and don't know this?

The only time the engine would ever possibly be directly running the AC is if the HV battery was totally empty after flooring it for like 5 min and you would also see a massive power reduction like in the i8 or Fisker when you are out of charge. That's because as you said the power comes from the engine yes but not directly and the whole point of the hybrid system is to bank power.

 

Yeah and guess what? The pack can output that and full motor power at the same time if charged enough, that's the whole advantage to the system and if not charged enough it simply lowers compressor cycle.

Even old single stage compressor cars will disengage the clutch on kickdown or full power demand. The hybrids don't need to though 99.9% of the time because of the fact it's running off the HV system and that is sized to feed everything.

Your logic is like asking how an EV is able to power things when actual power generation is off board, the answer of off the battery. This is the exact same thing but the generator is both onboard and able to directly assist in moving the car unlike something like a Fisker or certain Ford that the engines ONLY spin a generator and all motive force is via a motor.

I am not an EV guy at all but I at least know how they work, you own one. You should know how it functions

 

You claimed turning off the compressor doesn't reduce load on the engine.

The very basic fact you can't seem to grasp is all energy comes from gasoline except a small amount captured via regen.

 

Because it doesn't on a hybrid. If the pack is working the engine never directly runs the compressor nor does the compressor lower the engine output. If the pack isn't working you get a traction battery fault and need to fix it and the AC goes into a failsafe state.

You don't seem to comprehend the 100+ year old tech of a battery storing power for later. How do you start your gas car in the morning after using it? The battery right? Where did that power come from? Did you use it all every time you drove the car or was here some left over to do things independent of the alternator?

To put it in simple number terms.....

Engine at peak output can generate 10kw.
AC needs 1kw to run.
Electric motors need 5kw to apply full output amperage.
Battery pack can store 6kwh.
Pack can run both the AC and electric motor for one full hour at max output with the engine OFF and doing nothing.
When vehicle is cruising along it only requires 3kw to maintain speed, engine is commanded to generate 5-7kw to fill pack to max. Then it returns to only 3kw as needed to move the car

Total system power is 15kw if engine and motors are maxed out, at max power state the engine has NOTHING to do with the HV system until the pack is empty then total system power drops to 10kw. There is even a fancy little diagram on Toyota products showing the power flow at WOT that highlights the engine and motors are both running without the engine charging the pack and the pack providing everything for the motors

You know why Toyota hybrids when you "start" them after a few days will run the engine to 2500 rpm for 20-40 seconds about 10 seconds after "starting" them? It's to provide a baseline amount of reserve power in the pack to fulfill normal driving conditions. You let the car just sit there for a hour with AC on and then it will run the engine more and more to keep the pack charge above needed level

 

Oh and you are very wrong on this statement.

ALL the energy comes from gasoline unless you used sweat energy to push the car up a hill and then let it roll down and regen some power into to the pack. Literally fundamental physics, so might want to remember that before claiming I can't grasp something

 

I'm done.

I got triggered by someone else's lack of knowledge and I'm too worked up over something that's not my problem.

Im going to go return to messing with a diesel now.

 

This part is true. I start my Prius and immediately throw it in drive and I can look at the power/energy monitor and see what’s powering the wheels. The engine will fire up around 8-9mph but the hybrid battery is solely moving the car for first 20-30 seconds (I can see the battery depleting and sending energy to the wheels) depending on how fast I’m going and how much throttle I’m giving it. Then after those 20-30 seconds or so I can feel the engine kick in and take over.

Idle part is true as well.

 

If i remember correctly, toyota implemented a high load cutoff switch in all of their beige mobiles circa 1996. Push the pedal to the floor, and ac cutout, no need to fiddle with the hvac depending on which hill to climb. Didnt stop anyone accustom to turning off the ac though.

 

Yep......I also said as much but wasn't aware they were ahead of the times to that extent. I just knew for a fact that anything that make with a variable compressor will drop duty cycle on WOT because my LS430 did so.

 

Way before that, A/C amplifier has been around since the 70's I had a 1973 Corona that had it.

Your lack of basic knowledge on this subject is really something that's the nicest way I can put it. When you run the A/C in a hybrid your gas mileage goes down this extremely basic fact invalidates pretty much everything you've posted in this thread.

BTW you seem hung up on "engine doesn't directly drive the compressor" ...and? It still drives the compressor, energy input is gasoline. How do you not understand this?

 

I'll let everyone else determine who is wrong here as it's obvious to anyone who has even a basic understanding of how a Toyota hybrid system works.

You are so low on knowledge you even know how a battery works

 

But it impacts fuel mileage in a circumspect way. The AC unit draws from the hybrid battery, so with it off you have more battery to use for propulsion but the AC running doesn't directly sap power in the way it does in a strictly ICE car. The original question is woild turning the AC off make a Toyota hybrid climb a grade more easily and my answer to that question would be no.