95' Sc300 W' 68K Miles~Slow Morph to NA/T Thread
Ridiculous huh?
08-12-15, 01:41 PM
#140
More wiring last night. The wires will stay loose until verified as working then will be loomed. Maybe we can start the car tonight.
Looking OK so far Ali??
What kind of power might I make with this setup, 550's plus THIS Comp CT4X.
Looking OK so far Ali??
What kind of power might I make with this setup, 550's plus THIS Comp CT4X.
Last edited by Studiogeek; 08-12-15 at 01:51 PM.
08-12-15, 02:25 PM
#141
yeah looks good on the wiring side for the most part, with the exception of using those slice plastic connectors on the ecu wires. those should be removed and hardwired at some point. using the same red and brown color wires for more than one IGT can get confusing but in this case its only a few wires so its not a big deal one can figure it out. pretty much it all looks good minus those 3 pink splice connectors. I don't allow them anywhere near anything important. if it was an a/c relay I would not mention it but a loose connection on your IGT wires and you start dropping ignition on certain cylinders. some people will say oh its just a low level signal its fine, but I am not one of those some people as you can imagine from my overly winded posts.
Ignitor placement is a little different than what I do but that is just cosmetic. I reused the car's original bracket and used only 1 screw on the ignitor to the bracket, looks like they used the newer bracket and found a way to fit it a little further back onto the car, will work the same, some people even like to hide the ignitor under the intake manifold but thats for a full "wire tuck" I would leave it where it is or put it back on the stock bracket.
you should be able to put down 450-500 horses before you want to think about more injector/fuel, the psi that is will depend on the turbo and size, you should hit it under 20 psi, and this is purely guesstimation.
Ignitor placement is a little different than what I do but that is just cosmetic. I reused the car's original bracket and used only 1 screw on the ignitor to the bracket, looks like they used the newer bracket and found a way to fit it a little further back onto the car, will work the same, some people even like to hide the ignitor under the intake manifold but thats for a full "wire tuck" I would leave it where it is or put it back on the stock bracket.
you should be able to put down 450-500 horses before you want to think about more injector/fuel, the psi that is will depend on the turbo and size, you should hit it under 20 psi, and this is purely guesstimation.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 08-12-15 at 02:29 PM.
08-12-15, 02:39 PM
#142
I've used those same vampire taps for years with no issues. They're the recommended method for some piggyback setups. Your advice is of course good for the absolute most worry-free setup, but I certainly wouldn't lose sleep over whether they're going to be reliable.
08-12-15, 03:13 PM
#143
I wouldn't have figured you for one of those "some people" t2d2, but I can assure you they recommended that improper method to make installation "easier" so more people will buy their products who shouldn't really be doing any wiring. there are so many reasons not to use those connectors I could go on forever, seriously.
The physical act of a dull piece of metal being pushed though the insulation of the main wire ensures that you have pushed down hard enough to damage the wire some, whether its that its bent to a small/big degree or if its a tight enough that the connector has actually cut some of the strands of wire. even in the best case of not going through some of the wire, you are pressing down on it severely hard almost in the same way that wire cutters push down on a wire, and wire cutters do not have to be sharp to go through wire with enough pressure.
Now add vibration from years of operating the car (if you are that lucky). what happens when the wire with the metal squished into it starts vibrating? over time it eats through the weakened wire, the difference in metals can often cause corrosion to build up, and more often than not there comes the day where the result is an intermittent connection, then no connection when the wire finally lets go and it all gets loose inside, or simply can't make a good enough connection anymore.
Sure you can get away with it for X amount of years, but when you have an issue will you or the next owner remember where to look for the problem after many years have gone by. not to mention if it craps out in boost or under other potential situations where you need your engine delivering power you don't want to go back and say man I wish I wasn't so lazy that I didn't make a proper crimp or solder connection.
technically solder is not used in the engine bay, it should all be crimped like factory which is why I sometimes use GM weatherpack connectors with a crimper for more serious signals like the cam/crank signals (and I do drop a dot of solder on the base for extra insurance) but for most applications anything is better than doing the vampire tap.
Even twisting the wires together and masking taping them can be better to me than vampire taps cause at least that way you don't weaken the wire, but the tape can fall off and cause a short eventually.
the first result for the search "vampire taps for car piggybacks" on google is this page titled "The Problem with Wire-Tap Connectors", which should hopefully reinforce I am not talking out my rear end here.
http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/reso...ap-connectors/
Even these taps do have a place though, as I said they work for non essential items where you can afford some downtime when it eventually breaks.
you can use them to test you have the right wires, then remove them and make proper connections behind where you installed that tap as it may have been weakened there.
this is the method I was taught in school and I use to make 95% of my splice connections minus the spade connector on the end.
It has a mechanical lock (twisting of wires tightly together) and a solder lock (self explanatory), is a low resistance connection.
Notice how the original wire is never damaged. to peel the insulation without cutting the wire in 2, use a loose blade at a low angle and the insulation peels right off.
on smaller wires you can even just use a lighter and get the insulation hot, and then rub it with a paper towel and it can come right off the wire, but its messy!!
The physical act of a dull piece of metal being pushed though the insulation of the main wire ensures that you have pushed down hard enough to damage the wire some, whether its that its bent to a small/big degree or if its a tight enough that the connector has actually cut some of the strands of wire. even in the best case of not going through some of the wire, you are pressing down on it severely hard almost in the same way that wire cutters push down on a wire, and wire cutters do not have to be sharp to go through wire with enough pressure.
Now add vibration from years of operating the car (if you are that lucky). what happens when the wire with the metal squished into it starts vibrating? over time it eats through the weakened wire, the difference in metals can often cause corrosion to build up, and more often than not there comes the day where the result is an intermittent connection, then no connection when the wire finally lets go and it all gets loose inside, or simply can't make a good enough connection anymore.
Sure you can get away with it for X amount of years, but when you have an issue will you or the next owner remember where to look for the problem after many years have gone by. not to mention if it craps out in boost or under other potential situations where you need your engine delivering power you don't want to go back and say man I wish I wasn't so lazy that I didn't make a proper crimp or solder connection.
technically solder is not used in the engine bay, it should all be crimped like factory which is why I sometimes use GM weatherpack connectors with a crimper for more serious signals like the cam/crank signals (and I do drop a dot of solder on the base for extra insurance) but for most applications anything is better than doing the vampire tap.
Even twisting the wires together and masking taping them can be better to me than vampire taps cause at least that way you don't weaken the wire, but the tape can fall off and cause a short eventually.
the first result for the search "vampire taps for car piggybacks" on google is this page titled "The Problem with Wire-Tap Connectors", which should hopefully reinforce I am not talking out my rear end here.
http://tech.bareasschoppers.com/reso...ap-connectors/
Even these taps do have a place though, as I said they work for non essential items where you can afford some downtime when it eventually breaks.
you can use them to test you have the right wires, then remove them and make proper connections behind where you installed that tap as it may have been weakened there.
this is the method I was taught in school and I use to make 95% of my splice connections minus the spade connector on the end.
It has a mechanical lock (twisting of wires tightly together) and a solder lock (self explanatory), is a low resistance connection.
Notice how the original wire is never damaged. to peel the insulation without cutting the wire in 2, use a loose blade at a low angle and the insulation peels right off.
on smaller wires you can even just use a lighter and get the insulation hot, and then rub it with a paper towel and it can come right off the wire, but its messy!!
Last edited by Ali SC3; 08-12-15 at 03:33 PM.
08-12-15, 03:29 PM
#144
I can't really disagree with any of your or the article's concerns, but I consider them largely theoretical. I've removed vampire taps after nearly a decade of use, including exposure to the elements, and seen absolutely no sign of any of the stated fears. Luck of the draw, perhaps.
08-13-15, 07:30 AM
#145
I seriously appreciate all of you guys input.
It probably annoyed my builder but I asked that the ECU/IGT wires ect. be soldered. I feel slightly bad as I am rushing the hell out of him while giving him more to do. I was motivated by Ali's mention of how it would be trying to investigate an issue many years later. I like eliminating wiring as a potential problem down the line. I'm sure he cursed me last night but he will do it.
The car is starting to look like a car again. I really SHOULD be driving it in a few days!
I will repaint the Timing covers and a few other things after I get it back. I love the wrinkle black on the intake but not on the covers.
This is a "mock up" until after we start it. Nothing is permanent yet.
Thanks Guys!
It probably annoyed my builder but I asked that the ECU/IGT wires ect. be soldered. I feel slightly bad as I am rushing the hell out of him while giving him more to do. I was motivated by Ali's mention of how it would be trying to investigate an issue many years later. I like eliminating wiring as a potential problem down the line. I'm sure he cursed me last night but he will do it.
The car is starting to look like a car again. I really SHOULD be driving it in a few days!
I will repaint the Timing covers and a few other things after I get it back. I love the wrinkle black on the intake but not on the covers.
This is a "mock up" until after we start it. Nothing is permanent yet.
Thanks Guys!
08-13-15, 10:08 AM
#146
IC pipe routing looks great, so you can give your builder a complement from me. glad you pushed for the soldering by the ecu I felt bad for cluttering up your thread about those taps but glad you agreed you rather not have a potential problem down the line, you wont regret it. wrinkle did come out pretty nice on the intake.
08-13-15, 10:41 AM
#147
IC pipe routing looks great, so you can give your builder a complement from me. glad you pushed for the soldering by the ecu I felt bad for cluttering up your thread about those taps but glad you agreed you rather not have a potential problem down the line, you wont regret it. wrinkle did come out pretty nice on the intake.
All your input is appreciated and is never regarded as clutter by me. It is information and I seek as much of it as possible. Please freely add any thoughts you have as I learn loads from them.
Thank You!
08-13-15, 07:33 PM
#149
IMO the best is the western union splice knot......this how I built my wiring harness......of course I added solder and heat shrink wrap
http://38.media.tumblr.com/a029331be...rex8iw_500.gif
http://38.media.tumblr.com/a029331be...rex8iw_500.gif
08-13-15, 09:21 PM
#150
Haha, Jason said he laughed when he read my long email (including the picture I snatched from above) requesting better connections. He said Of course he was going to solder loads off stuff, after he verifies that everything is correct.
I hope I'm not turning into "THAT customer"
I hope I'm not turning into "THAT customer"
Last edited by Studiogeek; 08-13-15 at 10:38 PM.