Massive Meguiar's (and Menzerna) mega review
11-01-12, 07:50 AM
#1
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Massive Meguiar's (and Menzerna) mega review
So, this is going to serve as one giant review/project log for a few products that I'm trying for the first time, and in combination with some of my old standbys. A little background for those that hadn't read my other thread, I recently bought a nice 202 black (WHY?!) 07 ES350 from a Honda dealership. Previously owned by a woman, only 64k miles on it but it had definitely been beat up. The paint on this thing shows plenty of indications of automatic car washes and basically total neglect. Far beyond what my normal products (Meg's machine polish and #26 yellow wax) were capable of handling, so after a little conversation on here and a little research, I busted out the credit card and am adjusting my approach. This is all going to take place Sunday, so I'll try and get as many pictures as I can along the way. Here's the standard procedure I'll be following:
-Wash (Dish soap and Microfiber mitt to strip off old wax/glaze from dealership)
-Clay (Meg's QD and clay)
-Wash (This time with Meg's HyperWash)
That's where the new products will come in with some old ones. Here's the order in which they'll be going to battle:
-Meguiar's 5" microfiber DA correction kit
-Meguiar's machine polish on a 6" LC orange pad (if needed)
-Menzerna Finishing Glaze (all oils and fillers, no abrasives. To fill in minor stuff and add depth)
-Menzerna Power Lock polymer sealant
-Meg's #26 hi-tech yellow wax
I'm really excited to see the results, as this should be a night and day transformation. The Polishing and glazing will be done by machine, with the glaze curing for about half an hour. The sealant and wax will go on by hand, sealant curing for an hour, and wax for a half hour. I've had awesome luck with the yellow wax lasting a couple months, so between that and the sealant I think I should be covered for the upcoming winter, which I think is going to be a bad one.
If anyone has any input or advice before I start out on this stuff (curing intervals, etc.) I certainly welcome it. The car obviously will also be seeing a full interior detail at the same time, and hopefully will be getting the 3000K fogs installed as well. Gotta make good use of the curing time haha
-Wash (Dish soap and Microfiber mitt to strip off old wax/glaze from dealership)
-Clay (Meg's QD and clay)
-Wash (This time with Meg's HyperWash)
That's where the new products will come in with some old ones. Here's the order in which they'll be going to battle:
-Meguiar's 5" microfiber DA correction kit
-Meguiar's machine polish on a 6" LC orange pad (if needed)
-Menzerna Finishing Glaze (all oils and fillers, no abrasives. To fill in minor stuff and add depth)
-Menzerna Power Lock polymer sealant
-Meg's #26 hi-tech yellow wax
I'm really excited to see the results, as this should be a night and day transformation. The Polishing and glazing will be done by machine, with the glaze curing for about half an hour. The sealant and wax will go on by hand, sealant curing for an hour, and wax for a half hour. I've had awesome luck with the yellow wax lasting a couple months, so between that and the sealant I think I should be covered for the upcoming winter, which I think is going to be a bad one.
If anyone has any input or advice before I start out on this stuff (curing intervals, etc.) I certainly welcome it. The car obviously will also be seeing a full interior detail at the same time, and hopefully will be getting the 3000K fogs installed as well. Gotta make good use of the curing time haha
11-02-12, 07:15 AM
#5
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
EDIT: Found it. I'm pretty sure it's Meg's #83 (M-8332) Dual action machine polish. Will confirm on sunday.
As for the menzerna stuff, the glaze really technically only has to sit until it hazes, I plan to leave it on for half an hour to really let the oils and fillers settle down. I'll probably give it 15-20min to rest to be safe but as far as I know, the sealant can go over it right away to help keep it there. As for the Sealant, I'm going to allow it an hour to sit on the paint before removing, at which point I'll assess whether I want a second layer of it or not. Once I've buffed the sealant layer, I'll let it sit for a few hours before I top it with the yellow wax.
Last edited by jcat_350; 11-02-12 at 07:25 AM.
11-02-12, 10:14 AM
#6
A few thoughts...
1. You are using a fairly strong polish with #83. It is a DAT (diminishing abrasive technology) polish so be sure to work it well but be prepared to see hazing on black or other dark colors. You will likely need to follow with a milder polish to remove the haze and bring up the clarity and gloss.
2. Your choice of a glaze and a sealant is probably going to be an issue. There are only a few sealants that work over a glaze. Glazes are full of oils that will cause most sealants to not cross-link properly. If you polish properly (two stage, say #83 followed by #80 or the newer SMAT polishes like #105 and #205) you wont need the glaze and this will not be an issue. After the final polishing stage, wipe down the car with a 10% IPA/water solution to remove any oils which will insure proper sealant cross-linking. This will also remove any fillers and allow you to see how well the polishing stages went.
If this car is a daily driver in NY going into winter, it seems like a waste of time to do a full detail now. Unless this is a garage queen, I'd probably just wash, clay and seal it for the winter and do the polishing in spring.
1. You are using a fairly strong polish with #83. It is a DAT (diminishing abrasive technology) polish so be sure to work it well but be prepared to see hazing on black or other dark colors. You will likely need to follow with a milder polish to remove the haze and bring up the clarity and gloss.
2. Your choice of a glaze and a sealant is probably going to be an issue. There are only a few sealants that work over a glaze. Glazes are full of oils that will cause most sealants to not cross-link properly. If you polish properly (two stage, say #83 followed by #80 or the newer SMAT polishes like #105 and #205) you wont need the glaze and this will not be an issue. After the final polishing stage, wipe down the car with a 10% IPA/water solution to remove any oils which will insure proper sealant cross-linking. This will also remove any fillers and allow you to see how well the polishing stages went.
If this car is a daily driver in NY going into winter, it seems like a waste of time to do a full detail now. Unless this is a garage queen, I'd probably just wash, clay and seal it for the winter and do the polishing in spring.
11-02-12, 11:22 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
A few thoughts...
1. You are using a fairly strong polish with #83. It is a DAT (diminishing abrasive technology) polish so be sure to work it well but be prepared to see hazing on black or other dark colors. You will likely need to follow with a milder polish to remove the haze and bring up the clarity and gloss.
2. Your choice of a glaze and a sealant is probably going to be an issue. There are only a few sealants that work over a glaze. Glazes are full of oils that will cause most sealants to not cross-link properly. If you polish properly (two stage, say #83 followed by #80 or the newer SMAT polishes like #105 and #205) you wont need the glaze and this will not be an issue. After the final polishing stage, wipe down the car with a 10% IPA/water solution to remove any oils which will insure proper sealant cross-linking. This will also remove any fillers and allow you to see how well the polishing stages went.
If this car is a daily driver in NY going into winter, it seems like a waste of time to do a full detail now. Unless this is a garage queen, I'd probably just wash, clay and seal it for the winter and do the polishing in spring.
1. You are using a fairly strong polish with #83. It is a DAT (diminishing abrasive technology) polish so be sure to work it well but be prepared to see hazing on black or other dark colors. You will likely need to follow with a milder polish to remove the haze and bring up the clarity and gloss.
2. Your choice of a glaze and a sealant is probably going to be an issue. There are only a few sealants that work over a glaze. Glazes are full of oils that will cause most sealants to not cross-link properly. If you polish properly (two stage, say #83 followed by #80 or the newer SMAT polishes like #105 and #205) you wont need the glaze and this will not be an issue. After the final polishing stage, wipe down the car with a 10% IPA/water solution to remove any oils which will insure proper sealant cross-linking. This will also remove any fillers and allow you to see how well the polishing stages went.
If this car is a daily driver in NY going into winter, it seems like a waste of time to do a full detail now. Unless this is a garage queen, I'd probably just wash, clay and seal it for the winter and do the polishing in spring.
As far as the sealant going over the glaze, I've read mixed opinions on it. Some say that the oils won't let it bond properly, where some others say they've done it with awesome results, and some say they go over the glaze with a wax, which leads me to wonder if I should seal first, cure 3hr, glaze then wax?
The menzerna glaze being heavy on oils seems to mean the sealant must be water based in order to not be affected by the glaze's oils, at least from some stuff I'm reading.
It is a DD (in RI not NY though
) so I had considered saving the correction for spring, but it's killing me seeing this way haha.
Trending Topics
11-02-12, 12:21 PM
#8
Well the #83 was an afterthought, and an 'if needed' kind of thing. I'll be using the DA microfiber kit for correction.
As far as the sealant going over the glaze, I've read mixed opinions on it. Some say that the oils won't let it bond properly, where some others say they've done it with awesome results, and some say they go over the glaze with a wax, which leads me to wonder if I should seal first, cure 3hr, glaze then wax?
The menzerna glaze being heavy on oils seems to mean the sealant must be water based in order to not be affected by the glaze's oils, at least from some stuff I'm reading.
It is a DD (in RI not NY though) so I had considered saving the correction for spring, but it's killing me seeing this way haha.
As far as the sealant going over the glaze, I've read mixed opinions on it. Some say that the oils won't let it bond properly, where some others say they've done it with awesome results, and some say they go over the glaze with a wax, which leads me to wonder if I should seal first, cure 3hr, glaze then wax?
The menzerna glaze being heavy on oils seems to mean the sealant must be water based in order to not be affected by the glaze's oils, at least from some stuff I'm reading.
It is a DD (in RI not NY though
) so I had considered saving the correction for spring, but it's killing me seeing this way haha.If you have not used the MF pads before I would remind you that cleaning the pads after every pass or two is mandatory. Unlike foam, the MF really needs this cleaning to perform well. I use compressed air and just blow the pads clean.
D300 and D301 are SMAT polishes and they have a very long working time if needed. They produce remarkable results in short order, IME. I think you will love them.
My experience with glazes and sealants is this. I've been successful using Meg's glaze (M07) with their sealants (NXT 2.0, M21, and UW) All seem to exhibit no bonding issues over their glaze. Unfortunately, Menzerna was a mess. I'd not use the glaze and sealant combo unless you expect a very short life for the sealant. The glaze(M07) and M26 is golden, however. Trouble is, M26 alone won't last the winter. This is a great combo for the summer, especially on dark colors as M26 darkens the paint to a level that makes you think you could fall in to the paint like a pool of wet black oil.
M26 can be applied over a sealant after it has cured. It takes 12-24 hours for a sealant to fully cross-link, depending on humidity and temperature. During that time you should not get it wet or apply any other topper. Using M26 as a topper gives you a bit more protection and is a good winter package that should make it till spring.
Since you also have the bug, why not grab your camera and photograph your steps? Everyone here would benefit from seeing what you did and the results of your labor.
Last edited by jfelbab; 11-02-12 at 12:45 PM.
11-02-12, 12:43 PM
#9
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
OK, I see you have caught the "Detaling Bug" like many of us here. In that case, I've done many late model Lexus, BMW, Infinity, and Caddys with the MF DA kit. Those paints seem to love the MF pads. It corrects very quickly with the D300 so I'd forego the#83 if it were me. I sometimes like to jewel the paint with a foam finishing pad and a bit more of the D301 as I finish. The paint winds up glossy beyond belief.
If you have not used the MF pads before I would remind you that cleaning the pads after every pass or two is mandatory. Unlike foam, the MF really needs this cleaning to perform well. I use compressed air and just blow the pads clean.
D300 and D301 are SMAT polishes and they have a very long working time if needed. They produce remarkable results in short order, IME. I think you will love them.
My experience with glazes and sealants is this. I've been successful using Meg's glaze (M07) with their sealants (NXT 2.0, M21, and UW) All seem to exhibit no bonding issues over their glaze. Unfortunately, Menzerna was a mess. I'd not use the glaze and sealant combo unless you expect a very short life for the sealant. The glaze(M07) and M26 is golden, however. Trouble is, M26 alone won't last the winter. This is a great combo for the summer, especially on dark colors as M26 darkens the paint to a level that makes you think you could fall in to the paint like a pool of wet black oil.
M26 can be applied over a sealant after it has cured. It takes 12-24 hours for a sealant to fully cross-link, depending on humidity and temperature. During that time you should not get it wet or apply any other topper. Using M26 as a topper gives you a bit more protection and is a good winter package that should make it till spring.
Since you also have the bug, why not grab your camera and photograph your steps? Everyone here would benefit from seeing what you did and the results of your labor.
If you have not used the MF pads before I would remind you that cleaning the pads after every pass or two is mandatory. Unlike foam, the MF really needs this cleaning to perform well. I use compressed air and just blow the pads clean.
D300 and D301 are SMAT polishes and they have a very long working time if needed. They produce remarkable results in short order, IME. I think you will love them.
My experience with glazes and sealants is this. I've been successful using Meg's glaze (M07) with their sealants (NXT 2.0, M21, and UW) All seem to exhibit no bonding issues over their glaze. Unfortunately, Menzerna was a mess. I'd not use the glaze and sealant combo unless you expect a very short life for the sealant. The glaze(M07) and M26 is golden, however. Trouble is, M26 alone won't last the winter. This is a great combo for the summer, especially on dark colors as M26 darkens the paint to a level that makes you think you could fall in to the paint like a pool of wet black oil.
M26 can be applied over a sealant after it has cured. It takes 12-24 hours for a sealant to fully cross-link, depending on humidity and temperature. During that time you should not get it wet or apply any other topper. Using M26 as a topper gives you a bit more protection and is a good winter package that should make it till spring.
Since you also have the bug, why not grab your camera and photograph your steps? Everyone here would benefit from seeing what you did and the results of your labor.
The thing about the 12-24hr cure unfortunately is it'll be impossible for New England. the chance of a passing shower or morning dew (stored outside) is very high, especially lately. I've read that the oils in the glaze can actually help the wax bond a bit better, so we'll see how it turns out. I think I'll stay the course, but skip the M26 until maybe next weeekend after this nor'easter that's supposed to come through, and just hope for no moisture sunday night/monday morning haha. I only hope this damn droid my company has given me will pick up the defects in the paint the way I want. The garage has fluorescents overhead so that should help too.
11-04-12, 05:35 PM
#10
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Ok, pictures may follow, but I'll warn that they're only before shots. I'm extremely disappointed with the results from the day. However, I think it has more to do with the paint on my car and getting my hopes up than the products used. A text description will follow.
Did my usual wash/clay/wash/dry workflow, and i was impressed and pleased with how the old stuff came off the car. The paint really wasn't all that dirty in terms of the clay, so that was good and bad in the sense that my paint was a lot more marred than I thought. The worst of the swirling was up on the roof, both rear quarters, and trunk lid.
I started off with a 2' x 2' test area on my hood to begin the DA microfiber system. This was probably my first mistake since the hood has a lot of chips and pitting that I knew I wouldn't be able to polish out. I was impressed though at the depth it added to my paint. I did it exactly as prescribed on the box, 2-3 medium pressure (8lbs according to the bathroom scale) passes, then 2-3 light passes (weight of machine only) with the D300, followed by 2-3 passes with the D301 and light pressure, cleaning pads after every pass with compressed air. It certainly made the black darker, and I'm happy with how it came out, because it's really not gonna get much better.
I then moved to the passenger side of the car where the paint really was pretty good, save for a few surface scratches, and a couple deeper ones. It took a bit of elbow grease even with the red pad and D300, but the surface scratches polished out nicely, and even the deeper ones got dulled down enough to where I really couldn't see them except at the right angle. I did the same for the driver's side which was fine minus a few scratches that I worked on but didn't completely remove.
From there, I moved back to the passenger side quarter, where some of the swirling was. After 3 mid pressure passes, 3 light pressure passes, and the D301 finisher, it looked incredible...until I got it under sunlight, at which point it looked effectively unchanged. Gutted that all my hard work was for naught, I went on to the driver's side quarter to even it off and see if any better...nope.
So unfortunately, with time running down and feeling really discouraged, I gave up on the correction effort. I wiped the car down with QD and microfiber, and applied the Menzerna Power Lock. Let it sit for exactly 3 hours, and man let me tell you, that's some amazing stuff. Slicker finish than even my beloved #26 yellow wax, and even did a halfway decent job of filling in some of the smaller imperfections. I'm very impressed with the depth it added to the paint, especially down the sides, as it now looks like a mirror. A word of caution, definitely leave your garage door at least cracked if you can when applying this stuff and letting it set up, as when I went to check on it with a closed garage and closed window, the fumes hit my nose right away. It appears to be a solvent based sealant and the fumes can be pretty serious for the amount applied. Aside from that however, I'm amazed at the slickness of the finish for such a thin layer of stuff.
So, with my sealant applied and now curing, I'm going to give it until next weekend at which point she'll get some glaze over the fully cured sealant and then topped off with the #26. I had really high hopes that my first foray into compounding would have the car looking like glass all over and repent for the sins of previous detailers, but I was extremely disappointed.
A side note, my other Meg's machine polish seems to have gone missing...interesting.
Did my usual wash/clay/wash/dry workflow, and i was impressed and pleased with how the old stuff came off the car. The paint really wasn't all that dirty in terms of the clay, so that was good and bad in the sense that my paint was a lot more marred than I thought. The worst of the swirling was up on the roof, both rear quarters, and trunk lid.
I started off with a 2' x 2' test area on my hood to begin the DA microfiber system. This was probably my first mistake since the hood has a lot of chips and pitting that I knew I wouldn't be able to polish out. I was impressed though at the depth it added to my paint. I did it exactly as prescribed on the box, 2-3 medium pressure (8lbs according to the bathroom scale) passes, then 2-3 light passes (weight of machine only) with the D300, followed by 2-3 passes with the D301 and light pressure, cleaning pads after every pass with compressed air. It certainly made the black darker, and I'm happy with how it came out, because it's really not gonna get much better.
I then moved to the passenger side of the car where the paint really was pretty good, save for a few surface scratches, and a couple deeper ones. It took a bit of elbow grease even with the red pad and D300, but the surface scratches polished out nicely, and even the deeper ones got dulled down enough to where I really couldn't see them except at the right angle. I did the same for the driver's side which was fine minus a few scratches that I worked on but didn't completely remove.
From there, I moved back to the passenger side quarter, where some of the swirling was. After 3 mid pressure passes, 3 light pressure passes, and the D301 finisher, it looked incredible...until I got it under sunlight, at which point it looked effectively unchanged. Gutted that all my hard work was for naught, I went on to the driver's side quarter to even it off and see if any better...nope.
So unfortunately, with time running down and feeling really discouraged, I gave up on the correction effort. I wiped the car down with QD and microfiber, and applied the Menzerna Power Lock. Let it sit for exactly 3 hours, and man let me tell you, that's some amazing stuff. Slicker finish than even my beloved #26 yellow wax, and even did a halfway decent job of filling in some of the smaller imperfections. I'm very impressed with the depth it added to the paint, especially down the sides, as it now looks like a mirror. A word of caution, definitely leave your garage door at least cracked if you can when applying this stuff and letting it set up, as when I went to check on it with a closed garage and closed window, the fumes hit my nose right away. It appears to be a solvent based sealant and the fumes can be pretty serious for the amount applied. Aside from that however, I'm amazed at the slickness of the finish for such a thin layer of stuff.
So, with my sealant applied and now curing, I'm going to give it until next weekend at which point she'll get some glaze over the fully cured sealant and then topped off with the #26. I had really high hopes that my first foray into compounding would have the car looking like glass all over and repent for the sins of previous detailers, but I was extremely disappointed.
A side note, my other Meg's machine polish seems to have gone missing...interesting.
11-05-12, 06:02 AM
#11
If you happen to be using a Porter-Cable DA buffer you may need to bump your speed up from 4 to 5 when using the correction pad and compound and in the same manner bump your speed up from 3 to 4 when using the finishing pad and finishing wax. That is, if you were using a Porter-Cable. That had been recommended to me and it helped quite a bit.
If your paint is delicate, you may experience hazing from using the correction pad and correction fluid, requiring a bit more time with the finishing wax to remove that haze.
It does sound like you were very satisfied with the Power Lock. What glaze were you thinking of using over that and what benefit do you expect? Thanks for sharing your process.
If your paint is delicate, you may experience hazing from using the correction pad and correction fluid, requiring a bit more time with the finishing wax to remove that haze.
It does sound like you were very satisfied with the Power Lock. What glaze were you thinking of using over that and what benefit do you expect? Thanks for sharing your process.
11-05-12, 07:10 AM
#12
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
If you happen to be using a Porter-Cable DA buffer you may need to bump your speed up from 4 to 5 when using the correction pad and compound and in the same manner bump your speed up from 3 to 4 when using the finishing pad and finishing wax. That is, if you were using a Porter-Cable. That had been recommended to me and it helped quite a bit.
If your paint is delicate, you may experience hazing from using the correction pad and correction fluid, requiring a bit more time with the finishing wax to remove that haze.
It does sound like you were very satisfied with the Power Lock. What glaze were you thinking of using over that and what benefit do you expect? Thanks for sharing your process.
If your paint is delicate, you may experience hazing from using the correction pad and correction fluid, requiring a bit more time with the finishing wax to remove that haze.
It does sound like you were very satisfied with the Power Lock. What glaze were you thinking of using over that and what benefit do you expect? Thanks for sharing your process.
I plan to use the Menzerna finishing glaze (all oils and fillers, no abrasive) in combination with the Meg's #26 yellow wax. I've been reading that the oils in those kinds of glazes really help the Carnaubas adhere to the surface and deepen the look even more.
The result I'm hoping for is that the power lock actually on a small level filled in some of the finer marks, and I can tell by just today looking at it in the sun that it did, and by adding the glaze and #26 wax on top that they may fill in some of the deeper ones that power lock alone hadn't been able to. I kind of wish I had had time to put on a second layer of power lock, but judging by the finish I got from it, one should be decent enough to protect it for the winter. It really is amazing stuff, even with the minor imperfections the paint feels like glass.
11-12-12, 06:54 AM
#14
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
like I said, I didn't really end up taking any after shots given how disappointed I was. The car's still got a bunch of swirls all over it, the Power Lock helped a little and seemed to fill some of the super-fine scratches, and even after a nor'easter and some rain after 2 weeks with nothing else on top of it, the water's still beading like day 1. I didn't get a chance to do anything to the car this weekend partly because I was so busy, and partly because it was in the shop.