450h in the snow
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 1
From: ny
i would disagree with your assessment. led power consumption is only a fraction of HID. IF led headlamps aren't well developed technology, they have no business being in the audi R8 or lexus LS600h. with an average life span of 15 years, i would say led performance is strong. if you don't believe me, see what the "experts" say about led headlamps:
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...e-lexus-ls600h
http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1...e-lexus-ls600h
But, now LED isn’t in its prime time yet.
1000
executive matchup
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,771
Likes: 13
From: BC
I tried to say my meaning but didn't describe it well. Actually my "well-developed" = "there is still the room for the development". Anyway, it’s too late to change it. That article has said all the best parts from the current LED headlamps; however, they don't want to say a word about the challenge they've been encountering with. To my understanding, the material, heat, output setting, and environmental factors, etc, will be the key elements for LED headlights. For example, the brighter LED = the shorter life. The high ambient temp = the higher failure. The high voltage = the brighter output. It's hard to find the right combinations/formulae of these elements and form the good LED product. I believe Audi has led the world on utilizing LED on cars, sooner or later other car makers will catch them and do better.
But, now LED isn’t in its prime time yet.
But, now LED isn’t in its prime time yet.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article...070725/136768/
true, the first article i linked didn't mention the challenges they over come to get LED headlight technology to work, but they did over come it. the above article from techon shows this. true, LED is not main stream (ie: prime time), but it will be - give it another 3-5 years and it may be the next lighting replacement. time will tell.
imho, if lexus can overcome these difficulties and have LED headlamps on the LS600h and the RX450h, it shows they've thoroughly researched this to ensure stability and longevity and addressed most of the issues you've pointed out. imagine buying a LS600h only to have to change the LED bulbs/headlamps fail after a few years - imagine the heresy!
. can LED technology improve? absolutely, as with any technology. is this the best LED technology? probably not as you would agree. but it is the best LED technology available now.
Lead Lap
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 557
Likes: 2
From: Midwest
Hi all, I finally had a chance to drive the 450h with Dunlops in the snow yesterday. Work closed at noon because of the storm (20" and counting). The roads didn't look too bad so I decided to take the normal route home which includes an almost mile long hill with turns. By the time I got to the hill, the roads were not so nice - a few inches of wet snow compacted by tires, making it a little icy. I went for it anyway since the slope is long on the way down.
Going up was no problem but I had to take it slow/stop. An Isuzu Rodeo in front of me was fishtailing. The 450h handled it without a problem - no slipping, even in the turns. Fortunately Mr. Rodeo turned off the road. On the way down I used the sport mode to keep the speed in check. Again not even the slightest loss of control.
Overall I'm very happy the 450h did so well. I was concerned because the Dunlops were not my first choice. I'm very picky about my shoes and wanted the Michelins. But it turns out the Dunlops aren't so bad after all. And no, I didn't go out today to test them out some more. I have my limits.
It's hard to tell but here's a picture of the 450h after I got home. I easily backed it in through a foot high by three foot wide pile of wet snow at the end of the driveway. In addition to the front, the wheel wells were caked with slush. Next storm/test might be Wednesday.
Going up was no problem but I had to take it slow/stop. An Isuzu Rodeo in front of me was fishtailing. The 450h handled it without a problem - no slipping, even in the turns. Fortunately Mr. Rodeo turned off the road. On the way down I used the sport mode to keep the speed in check. Again not even the slightest loss of control.
Overall I'm very happy the 450h did so well. I was concerned because the Dunlops were not my first choice. I'm very picky about my shoes and wanted the Michelins. But it turns out the Dunlops aren't so bad after all. And no, I didn't go out today to test them out some more. I have my limits.
It's hard to tell but here's a picture of the 450h after I got home. I easily backed it in through a foot high by three foot wide pile of wet snow at the end of the driveway. In addition to the front, the wheel wells were caked with slush. Next storm/test might be Wednesday.
We have finally started to melt the snow here the past week or so. A lot of rain will fall here this week and the snow still on the ground (still 7 inches as of this morning) should be just about gone by the weekend. We have had at least 5 inches on the ground since December 8 (the old record was 55 consecutive days with at least 5 inches on the ground). People here are absolutely sick of it. The hope now is that there will be minimal flooding this week with the rains, mild temperatures and rapidly melting snows up stream from us in the river basins.
Thread Starter
No, I don't play soccer!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,652
Likes: 177
From: NJ
PatsSoxfan, I wonder if the 450h can swim as well as it can drive in the snow 
We're expecting rain Friday until sometime next week around here. Good way to get all that salt off the underside at least.
We're expecting rain Friday until sometime next week around here. Good way to get all that salt off the underside at least.
CL Community Team
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 12,551
Likes: 230
From: San Francisco, CA
I believe Audi has led the world on utilizing LED on cars, sooner or later other car makers will catch them and do better.
I believe that Lexus is very conservative and safe with their designs and technology. Everything is fully tested and they dont release anything that they dont think will stand the test of time. They are probably the strictest manufacturer regarding nanny control, and only now are they easing up on other technologies in the US that other countries have been getting, such as lane keep assist and a stronger pre collision system. Another reason why Toyota hasnt mentioned anything about Li-ion battery technology and is still using the proven nickle
Pole Position
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 309
Likes: 9
From: VA
I'm glad the LEDs have a long life becuase I suspect they are quite expensive to replace. By the way, this thread started as a report on the RX handling in the snow, but now about half of the comments relate to LEDs.
Driver
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: OH
this article addresses some of the issues you've brought up:
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article...070725/136768/
imho, if lexus can overcome these difficulties and have LED headlamps on the LS600h and the RX450h, it shows they've thoroughly researched this to ensure stability and longevity and addressed most of the issues . . . but it is the best LED technology available now.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/article...070725/136768/
imho, if lexus can overcome these difficulties and have LED headlamps on the LS600h and the RX450h, it shows they've thoroughly researched this to ensure stability and longevity and addressed most of the issues . . . but it is the best LED technology available now.
That's why I went with LED -- Lexus isn't perfect but it is as close as it gets when it comes to automobiles.
I must say I prefer the HID high beams over the halogen in the 450h, but the LED low beams are very nice and offer the 'first kid on the block' factor.
I've read that Caddy is offering LED high beams on some models, so all LED is coming fast. I can see them displacing HID and halogen completely in 4-5 years.
Driver
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: OH
Black ice -- well -- imho that's more of a tire issue in light of the 450h's performance on other surfaces. My BMW had Goodyear triple tread tires with an ice strip for the center tread. Could have used that grip a couple of times.
I'm too cheap to replace new tires on a new car -- the Goodyears will have to wait another 35K miles.
But with a little care the 450h crosses black ice well enough with stock tires.
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,158
Likes: 1
From: ny
Pole Position
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 284
Likes: 2
From: IL
In my Lexus sedan, it also has a "snow mode" but that switches to second gear start instead of first gear to minimize wheel spin based on my understanding and experience.
Thread Starter
No, I don't play soccer!
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 6,652
Likes: 177
From: NJ
I got my 450h in January and have had the chance to drive it a few times in the snow. I didn't bother putting it in snow mode. It was fine and didn't slip. I have rarely used snow mode in any of my RXs. The '10, like my '04, has the ability to manually downshift/upshift. I use that instead. So far so good.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 419
Likes: 55
From: PA
I had no problems with the snows in PA this winter. I only used snow mode 1-2 times just to see if there was a perceived difference. Normally the 450h AWD model is running in FWD and the rear wheels only kick in on an "as needed" basis (You can see this under normal conditions by viewing the Energy Display). In snow mode the rear wheels are engaged full time up to a certain speed (the number escapes me).
Remember that the rear wheels are only driven by a traction motor. There is no mechanical linkage to the front wheels or engine, as you would find in a "typical" AWD vehicle.
I cannot answer (but continue to wonder myself) how the AWD engagement works under slipping driving conditions. I have not encountered any issues but it is certainly not like the Quattro system on my Audis.
Remember that the rear wheels are only driven by a traction motor. There is no mechanical linkage to the front wheels or engine, as you would find in a "typical" AWD vehicle.
I cannot answer (but continue to wonder myself) how the AWD engagement works under slipping driving conditions. I have not encountered any issues but it is certainly not like the Quattro system on my Audis.
Driver
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: OH
I checked into winter tires, and discovered that 19 inch wheels cost nearly $4K a set plus the cost of tires. Is it OK to have the all season tires removed and winter tires put on the alloy rims? I have 20k miles on the vehicle and plan to keep it 100K.
Thanks.
Thanks.