520,000+ mile 97 Supra NA on original engine
#31
I always find the brand loyalty with vehicles to be very odd. I've owned Toyota/Lexus, Honda, and Mazda, and they've all got their respective pros and cons. I see no significant difference in build quality or longevity between them, either. And if I had to pick one of the three that has held up the best, from personal experience, it wouldn't be Toyota/Lexus.
Brand loyalty is like religion. Everyone swears their's is the best and everyone else's is the worst. They can't all be right.
Brand loyalty is like religion. Everyone swears their's is the best and everyone else's is the worst. They can't all be right.
#32
Lead Lap
iTrader: (8)
Wait, now Honda is good? See, that's why I put more stock in my own experience than in that of others. Most people are way too biased to give an honest assessment.
Honest question: Does Lexus actually rate better than Toyota for reliability? I wouldn't think so, as the basic engineering tends to be very similar and luxury stuff is what usually wears out first. I've never seen paid attention to their relative ratings, though.
Honest question: Does Lexus actually rate better than Toyota for reliability? I wouldn't think so, as the basic engineering tends to be very similar and luxury stuff is what usually wears out first. I've never seen paid attention to their relative ratings, though.
#34
Lead Lap
On a related note since we're talking Toyota vs Mazda, I'm readying a RX8 driver's seat for install in the SC. It's some 35 lbs lighter than the SC seat while retaining all the same power functions and adding the heater which mine didn't come with. It's not quite as plush but is a better fit for me and much more supportive in a sporty sense. Lexus vastly over-built several aspects of these cars, and for no particularly good reason that I can see. Is nearly double the weight of a seat going to make it any safer? My butt isn't fat enough to appreciate the difference...
The SC is a luxury GT car with plush seats designed in the late 80s. Comfortable cruising was the ideology IIRC.
The RX8 is a sports car with a motor notoriously low on torque thus requiring engineers to cut mass wherever possible. The car is also designed and build almost 20 years after the SC so improvements in manufacturing process and materials...
#36
Lead Lap
iTrader: (8)
I would be remiss to not come back to this:
The SC used the same boat anchor seats through 2000. The RX8 was released in 2004. That's only 3-4 years of potential manufacturing improvements. Lexus obviously saw no need to lighten the load late in the model cycle. Have you opened up a SC/Soarer seat? You could hang iron girders from those seat back frames.
A heavier car results in more forces in the event of an impact, requiring heavier duty safety equipment. It's an equation that quickly spirals out of control. Think about the critical reviews of modern Lexus offerings. The typical negative comment you see is they're too heavy. You can go all the way back to the MKIII Supra / Cressida weight complaints to see, this just isn't an area that Toyota has a good grasp on. They build drivetrains like nobody's business, though.
If Mazda built the SC with its same Toyota underpinnings, it would be 10% smaller, 800 lbs lighter, offered 80-90% as M/T, and one of the greatest cars of all-time. That's where I think people miss where I'm coming from when I highlight the negatives. Why be satisfied with flaws when you can take a great platform and improve upon it?
The SC is a luxury GT car with plush seats designed in the late 80s. Comfortable cruising was the ideology IIRC.
The RX8 is a sports car with a motor notoriously low on torque thus requiring engineers to cut mass wherever possible. The car is also designed and build almost 20 years after the SC so improvements in manufacturing process and materials...
The RX8 is a sports car with a motor notoriously low on torque thus requiring engineers to cut mass wherever possible. The car is also designed and build almost 20 years after the SC so improvements in manufacturing process and materials...
A heavier car results in more forces in the event of an impact, requiring heavier duty safety equipment. It's an equation that quickly spirals out of control. Think about the critical reviews of modern Lexus offerings. The typical negative comment you see is they're too heavy. You can go all the way back to the MKIII Supra / Cressida weight complaints to see, this just isn't an area that Toyota has a good grasp on. They build drivetrains like nobody's business, though.
If Mazda built the SC with its same Toyota underpinnings, it would be 10% smaller, 800 lbs lighter, offered 80-90% as M/T, and one of the greatest cars of all-time. That's where I think people miss where I'm coming from when I highlight the negatives. Why be satisfied with flaws when you can take a great platform and improve upon it?
#37
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (17)
800lbs lighter on a vehicle that size? Show me one car that's that's got the dimensions of an SC that is 800lbs lighter in full trim.
Why does the new Miata weigh over 2,300lbs if Mazda is so good at what you're saying. That car is half the size of an SC and has no luxury features on it. Shouldn't it weigh 1500lbs by your logic?
Why does the new Miata weigh over 2,300lbs if Mazda is so good at what you're saying. That car is half the size of an SC and has no luxury features on it. Shouldn't it weigh 1500lbs by your logic?
#41
I rather don't mind the weight of the SC. Similarly I don't really mind the weight of an 80's-90's Benz. For all the weight and size it has, I'm surprised at how nimble it can be. Granted I'm not going to autocross it against a Miata but that's not what the car was designed for.
An RX-7 FD3S, however, was made to be exceptionally light and was not intended to be a muscle luxury machine with a long wheelbase. As an example. I like the twin turbo twin rotor Wankels personally but they're for someone who REALLY wants to put up with them Not sure if the RX-8 is quite as worth it.
t2d2, there are always 93-96 Supra MKIV seats. They were the sportier seat designed for the same base chassis. They weigh considerably less than the stock SC seats and just bolt in. Wiring is not difficult to convert at all and if you're already going to recover them you can install aftermarket seat heater pads at the same time and connect up the available factory seat heater circuitry and console buttons, even on manual cars. You lose seat memory functions, some extra adjustments and the very nice auto-roll-forward function for rear seat ingress/egress but that's not a big deal. And the passenger side becomes non-powered.
I love mine. They suit the car, improve the driving position and cure the two things I never liked about the stock seats: very poor lumbar support (even with the adjustment) and complete lack of side bolstering.
Then again I was perfectly fine giving up some of the power and plush features of the stock seats which were closer to the LS400 seat design.
An RX-7 FD3S, however, was made to be exceptionally light and was not intended to be a muscle luxury machine with a long wheelbase. As an example. I like the twin turbo twin rotor Wankels personally but they're for someone who REALLY wants to put up with them Not sure if the RX-8 is quite as worth it.
t2d2, there are always 93-96 Supra MKIV seats. They were the sportier seat designed for the same base chassis. They weigh considerably less than the stock SC seats and just bolt in. Wiring is not difficult to convert at all and if you're already going to recover them you can install aftermarket seat heater pads at the same time and connect up the available factory seat heater circuitry and console buttons, even on manual cars. You lose seat memory functions, some extra adjustments and the very nice auto-roll-forward function for rear seat ingress/egress but that's not a big deal. And the passenger side becomes non-powered.
I love mine. They suit the car, improve the driving position and cure the two things I never liked about the stock seats: very poor lumbar support (even with the adjustment) and complete lack of side bolstering.
Then again I was perfectly fine giving up some of the power and plush features of the stock seats which were closer to the LS400 seat design.
#42
Lead Lap
iTrader: (8)
Why does the new Miata weigh over 2,300lbs if Mazda is so good at what you're saying. That car is half the size of an SC and has no luxury features on it. Shouldn't it weigh 1500lbs by your logic?
Also, anyone on a serious weight reduction kick gets their Miata down to 2100-2200 lbs pretty easily. Sub-2000 isn't a stretch for people willing to make a few compromises.
I forgot, I did have a Mazda tail light turn into a fish bowl. However, that's not exactly unheard of for the SC lights, either.
I rather don't mind the weight of the SC. Similarly I don't really mind the weight of an 80's-90's Benz. For all the weight and size it has, I'm surprised at how nimble it can be. Granted I'm not going to autocross it against a Miata but that's not what the car was designed for.
t2d2, there are always 93-96 Supra MKIV seats.
The Supra driver's seat is powered? I thought they all have manual ***** on them, but maybe I've never seen a close enough picture and it's a bit of both?
Edit: I found in my notes that the Supra driver's seat is 49 lbs and powered slider/tilt. I guess that makes it 4-way power adjustable? (As opposed to 8-way for the ~43 lb RX8 seat.) Also, the SC driver's seat is supposedly 71 lbs.
I love mine. They suit the car, improve the driving position and cure the two things I never liked about the stock seats: very poor lumbar support (even with the adjustment) and complete lack of side bolstering.
Last edited by t2d2; 06-10-16 at 08:23 AM.
#43
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (17)
So now you are backtracking on your statements? An engine that can crap itself at any moment is all of a sudden a fun aspect of Mazda ownership? So at this point, no matter what people tell you, you will turn it around and make it into some positive to defend your brand. I think the only fanboy here is you dude. Just face the facts, Mazda is not as reliable as Toyota/Lexus despite what your crappy ownership experience was. A Miata or any lighter car is going to handle better than a similar setup bigger and heavier car. Simple physics.
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