Boxxx

Hi all, was looking to get some insight from some late model SC400 owners on something. To make a long story short I have fibromyalgia and at times just the motion of operating the clutch is enough to make everything swell up until it gets to the point it kills me to move it. Currently it's generally not an issue and the lighter the clutch the better off I am, but from the looks of it things are only continuing to get worse. The issue there besides the obvious is that I really enjoy driving a manual and driving is one of the few things that I'm able to do and have fun. I've been trying to look at some alternatives and some cars have tap shift, but that's really not much better than a regular auto. Then I remembered the later SC400 has a gated shifter with L, 2, 3, 4, D all there on the shift selector.

Which brings me to my question, would it be perfectly ok to manually shift the car all of the time? I know the Lexus is designed for smooth and soft shifts but manually upshifting and downshifting should override that somewhat? Just leaving it in drive is boring and I'm trying to find a livable compromise. I wouldn't be bouncing it off redline all the time, just shifting when I decide it should and not the car. I had found the owner's manual and from reading it in theory it should work out how I'm imagining it, but I'm wanting to get some feedback from actual owners as well. The other option is buying a T56 F-body and hoping my knee holds out, which the LS1 clutch is stupidly light for the kind of car it is as it wasn't much heavier than what was in my Miata. Anyway thanks for any insight that can be given on the matter.

LEXXIUM

iTrader: (1)

Manually shifting auto transmission can burn your clutches out.
Yes it's a 5 speed auto, but I don't think it's designed for that.
The 650e is great smooth trany and shifts silky smooth In D mode!!
But I don't think it's that easy to swap the old one for the new one,
Because of electronics

Ali SC3

iTrader: (10)

it can probably take it for quite a while but it depends on when you shift. if you hold every gear till high rpm's and shift at the last second it will probably wear it out faster. if you shift it sort of how it normally does and give it that extra second to shift between gears before hitting redline then i don't see the difference between that and going Wide open throttle. the firmness of the shift has to do with the throttle position sensor, so the further you have the throttle down when you shift the firmer it will shift, and the less you have it pushed down the softer it will shift.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Boxxx,

The A650E is a very good transmission but as mentioned above it's probably not good for it to shift manually every single time the car is driven. Also, I'm not sure what a built version can take as far as torque. They're rock solid reliable for 290-320hp but beyond that, no idea.

I would suggest looking into an A340 4-speed automatic from a Supra TT or Aristo and what options there are to have it beefed up at a company like Level Ten. Then adding to that a modification for it called SupraStick which allows for greater manual control.

Beyond those options... I think a built GM TH400 3-speed with longer gearing would be the next step up in budget bulletproof manually-shiftable automatics.

Boxxx

Well darn... Most of the time I drive like an old man anyway, so I'd be moderately accelerating until 2,500 or so and go to the next gear or if already up to speed go straight to 5/D. As far as all out throttle goes I'd only do that getting onto the interstate or merging onto the highway. More or less drive it as if it were a clutchless manual.

I have a '79 Firebird with the TH350 that I'd manually shift but just bumping back and forth in a straight line isn't any fun, that and even after adjusting it felt sloppy. Guess I'll just get another manual and hope my knee holds out, that and might look into cortisone injections. The LS1 car I tested was surprisingly light, so that's probably my best best. I had tried a Mustang Cobra but about after the third or fourth time pushing in the clutch my knee let out a loud pop and that was it.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the feedback and information. I thought it might be a little harder on the frictions but maybe it'd have been a negligible amount.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Boxxx,

This might not be the SupraStick brand system itself but it's very similar, with the inclusion of paddle shifters. I do believe this still uses the A340 4-speed, since this is demonstrated in an MKIV Supra TT. Same automatic transmission found in virtually all factory turbo JZ Toyotas.

Just to give you an idea of what I'm speaking of. Your medical condition is pretty important in these decisions, I'd say. Ultimately only you can know where your tolerance level is. However, not having a manual gearbox should not hamper your fun these days. Much as even I hate to admit it, too much new technology exists that can help and provide not the same experience but an equally fun experience without three pedals.

Skip to 2min,35sec for the demonstration of the system.

Boxxx

Thanks for the video. I'd hate to know how much a system like that would cost though. Also it sounded like he said it had a 4L80 trans in it at the 2:35-6 mark.

I don't recall there being any times driving the Miata that the clutch caused too much trouble, but that would've been almost a year ago now that I drove a manual regularly. Of course I can always float the gearbox on the bad days and only have to use the clutch for getting started if I had to. Which even manually shifting a SC400 or some car with shift paddles just isn't the same. The timing of the clutch and throttle inputs is half the fun. Being able to jump into any gear without having to go through the gears is also another part of it. I dunno, its like damned if do damned if I don't. I want to drive a manual for as long as I can seeing as how things will ultimately end up to where I can't. My mom used to drive a stick, she was planning on getting a manual Challenger and even test drove one to find it had a light clutch, but just the repeated motion is enough to inflame and swell everything... For the time being I can get away with it most of the time provided the clutch isn't too heavy.

I guess I'm just being stubborn, but it's one of the few things in life I enjoyed and I don't want to have everything stripped from me. It's bad enough at 23 I'll never be able to go to a theme park again or do any kind of outside activity. I thought with the SC400 having the shift gate it'd kind of be like a manual, moving the shifter to the side, up, to the side, and up. Some level of dexterity to it to keep it entertaining. If it's going to blow it out I guess I'll keep looking or just deal with a manual for as long as I can.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Boxxx,

If that system doesn't fit the bill then that's it. Just wanted to give you options. You may have been right about the transmission model but I know it can be done with an A340E as well.

For what it's worth, the factory Toyota clutch for the SC300 W58 and even the OEM Toyota MKIII Turbo clutch used with an R154 swap both aren't what I'd call "heavy" at all. Nothing like an ACT aftermarket clutch.

Most recently the two clutches I experienced that seems ridiculously light to me were in the BRZ/FR-S and Ford Focus ST. VERY light and easy to operate on the third pedal.

Also, you might try the OEM clutch paired with the W55 5-speed in factory manual IS300's. I'm not sure if those use the same clutch disc and pressure plate as the W58 but it may be a revised part. I know there is a clutch line dampening device on those models that is commonly removed but which might actually make operation easier in your case.

Actually I have to wonder if the IS300 5-speed clutch line dampening device can be adapted to W58 SC300's. It basically interrupts the clutch line. People remove it for better pedal feel but this might actually help you.

Boxxx

The clutch weight on the LS1 and LT1 Firebirds I tried were ok. The LS1 wasn't much heavier than my Miata, and the LT1 was a tad lighter than my Celica. It's been too long since I had my '89 Supra NA 5-speed, but I recall its clutch was light so that'd mean so should the SC300. The problem is with fibro sometimes just repeating a motion can be enough for the cartilage, ligaments, and tendons to swell. I was painting the shaker scoop for my Firebird a few weeks back and before finishing the second coat I physically just couldn't hold the trigger down anymore due to that tendon running through the arm and hand getting so swollen.

I've thought about utilizing an electronic solenoid to act as a clutch slave and then having a variable rate switch that's spring loaded mounted to the left side of the steering wheel on the thumb rest, but that'll require some looking into and would only work on transmissions using a traditional clutch fork and not a hydraulic throwout bearing. Though I'm sure something could be figured out there, maybe some kind of pump junctioned in line that could push enough pressure to fully disengage the clutch... If the day comes it gets to being that bad I'll figure something out. SAAB had a computer controlled clutch called the Sensonic which still used a regular manual gear selector, so I'm not entirely off kilter at least.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Well this isn't available commercially and only partly addresses the issue but Bosch has a prototype system that reduces the need to use the pedal all the time in a traditional manual gearbox. To my knowledge this has not yet been implemented.

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bosch-el...ch-system.html

From the LNN article:

"Supply company Bosch Automotive has introduced a new technology designed to eliminate accidental stalling, make stop-and-go traffic a breeze and improve fuel economy in manual transmission-equipped vehicles.

Dubbed eClutch by Bosch, the system replaces a conventional clutch hydraulic master cylinder with an electrically operated pump that automatically engages the clutch. Should the driver let out the clutch too quickly when setting out or fail to disengage it when coming to a stop, eClutch will step in to prevent a stall.

In addition to saving the dignity of inexperienced or inattentive manual users, eClutch can provide much of the convenience of an automatic gearbox in low-speed situations. For first and second gear, the system is capable of working the clutch without input from the driver (who still must move the shifter), helping to take some of the tedium out of traffic and reduce left leg wear-and-tear.

eClutch can also automatically shut off the engine and decouple it from the transmission during coasting situations - Bosch claims this function can boost efficiency by up to 10 percent.

The system's third benefit is that, for the first time, it allows a manual transmission to coordinate the operation of gasoline and electric motors in a full-hybrid powertrain - no longer are stick shifts limited to simpler hybrid setups like Honda's Integrated Motor Assist.

Specific pricing details haven't been revealed, although Bosch says that the system costs 'significantly less than a conventional automatic transmission.' "

Boxxx

I think I remember coming across that awhile ago, but it was just mentioned briefly and not as much detail. From the sounds of it it should be under $1,000 which is usually the price of adding an automatic as an option. Hopefully by the time I really need such a system it will be available. For now I can just float through gears on the bad days and very little of my driving is city based, so I'll be ok. Like I had said before though a lighter clutch usually doesn't give me any issues, so the plan now is to find a T56 F-body and take it from there. I think I'd like the SC400, I really would as the interior and overall quality is worlds beyond the F-body but I want to be able to manually shift my car. An automatic F-body(as foolishly suggested by some others elsewhere) isn't even an option, would be a wash in the SC400's favour at that point. The '79 Firebird was different, it's an old muscle car and the 4-speed is not only rare and expensive but a direct linkage clutch I couldn't use anyway.