HadYurPhil

My '01 RX300 has developed an unpleasant steering problem. It pulls to the left on acceleration and pulls to the right when I take my foot off the gas. I've checked the tires. They're fine. About six months ago, I was told during a tire rotation that the right side needed a tie rod end, so although I could not find play in the tie rod end, I replaced it, being very careful to measure the distances between tie rod stud and inner tie rod. The problem did not go away. I do notice that if I jack up the passenger side, there is a small amount of play in the wheel with the play appearing to come from the steering rack. If I turn the steering wheel from side to side, I don't see any play in the wheels. Have any of you experienced this or a similar problem. My car has 220,000 miles on it.

code58

HYP,
I spent my life in automotive work and can assure you there are plenty of people in automotive servicing that make mistakes, way too many. Are you sure the play they reported to you as the tie rod end wasn't, in fact, the inner tie rod? (the rod that goes into the steering rack) If they thought they noticed a little play and didn't inspect carefull, they could have easily figured it was the end when in fact it was the inner tie rod. Either, when worn, would demonstrate movement.
What you described in the pulling is called "torque steer". 20-25 years ago it was a major problem. As the years have rolled on they have found one trick after another to eliminate more and more of it until it is not even noticeable in most cars today. The cheapest cars may demonstrate some of it, but most of the time it's not noticeable. Our younger son had a Honda Civic back in the 80's that could be driven down the street without ever touching the wheel. Just accelerate or decelerate to keep it going straight. You still shouldn't have that problem if the motor mounts and links are in good shape. Be sure and check them. The inner tie rod has a ball at the inner end that is the wear spot. It is inside of the "boot". To bad you couldn't run it with the front wheels on a dyno roller. Then you'd be able to see exactly what it was doing under acceleration and speed with it standing still. The joints in the front drive axles could also come into the picture with that many miles on it, but T/L builds their cars with incredibly high quality parts that last a LONG time!

HadYurPhil

Is that something I can replace or would that involve special tools?

Thank you for the thorough reply!

code58

You mean the inner tie rod or the motor mounts or the drive axle joints? The inner tie rods do take a special tool but I think they can actually be bought pretty cheap as long as you don't buy them off a professional tool truck. The motor mounts, probably without special tools as long as you have a bottle jack. IF the drive axle joints were in any way part of the problem, you just buy rebuilt drive axles. They seldom overhaul them because the joints would cost more than a rebuilt assmbly. It still shouldn't be terribly hard to determine what is causing the problem. The Motor mounts or the upper stabalizing link would be more likely to cause the "torque steer". I hate throwing (expensive) parts at a car, that's why I try to make sure my diagnosis is correct before I tear things apart or buy parts.

code58

These should give you an idea of what you need. I would say the "muffler clamp type" should work fine. $16.-$17. is pretty cheap. You MAY NOT need one at all IF the end where the wrench has to grab is exposed when the steering is turned ALL the way in that direction. Obviously the "boot" has to be removed to expose that. You could pull the clamp on the rack and turn it all the way to see if it even requires a special wrench or not. You would have to have the end of the ball housing exposed in order to use the "muffler clamp style" because you can't clamp on to the rod, it will only turn on the ball. There is always a thin metal safety that gets bent over to keep the ball (inner) end from unscrewing.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...3A15708931%2Ck

HadYurPhil

The man is a font of knowledge...

I'll check the stuff you've mentioned.

HadYurPhil

The "dog bone" is basically shot. Looking at an exploded view of the mounts, etc. it isn't easy to figure out exactly what needs to be replaces, mount-wise. I didn't look before I started this post, but is there a DIY on here concerning the mounts? Aside from needing a bottle jack... which I don't have. I do have a floor jack.

code58

HYP, I wouldn't change anything that isn't actually bad. With the miles you have on it, they all may be bad, but DON'T assume that, check 'em. The "dog bone" may be what's causing the "torque steer". The floor jack should work fine. If you take the weight off the mounts you should be able to tell if they're bad. Do that by using a large piece of wood on the jack pad and under the oil pan. To give you an idea of what would be IDEAL, a piece of 3/4 in plywood the size of the bottom of the engine pan or a piece of 2in thick by 8in wide by the width or length of the pan. Just make sure the pressure is all on the wood and thick enough that it doesn't bow with the jack pad. I think the front mount (by the radiator) is a pretty sophisticated mount and probably kinda pricey. Go for the "dog bone" 1st. Not sure about the DIY but I'd be amazed if you couldn't find it on You Tube. If you had a bottle jack, it is normally OK to jack up on the lower crankshaft pulley if you need to jack that end of the engine up. Just make sure you have whatever you use well centered on the pulley and the wheels blocked.

HadYurPhil

I'll check it this weekend if not before. Think I have a 2x8 scrap that is perfect for the job.

HadYurPhil

I have a bottle jack I can use. Put the jack right on the pulley?? That would be on the right side, correct?

code58

Yes, but you need to use a piece of wood on the jack under the pulley (obviously the lower crankshaft pulley). Make sure and get it centered on the pulley so that the pulley doesn't turn. When you're using a floor jack or bottle jack to jack the engine anywhere, remember to only jack it as high as you NEED to do the job. Also, if you're changing a mount, be very careful when you have the mount out that you keep your body parts out of the way in case it slips and falls. I've NEVER had one do that, but it could be catastrophic if, say, your hand was between the mount bracket and the engine. Caution is your friend! Right side is correct.

A small piece of 2x4 should be OK for the lower pulley.

HadYurPhil

Update: I replaced the "dogbone" engine mount which on closer inspection was OK. Still replaced it. No change in handling. I also ordered the mount referred to as the "rear transmission mount" and will try Code58's engine lifting trick. Never got the bottle jack, so I'll have to try the 2x8 method.

I have the car up on jack stands to check steering play. Essentially none in the left front, about an eighth of an inch or so in the right. What, if any, play is normal? Also notice the inside part of the front tires' tread is more worn tan the outside.

OK, I lifted the engine as well as I could using the jack/2x8 method. The mount looks OK, as in it didn't separate. Is that what I would be looking for?

Looks to me that motor mounts aren't the issue here.

code58

Inside front tire wear would be be from toe out or excessive neg camber. Is the inside tire wear only on the side with the 1/8 in play or on both front tires? There shouldn't really be any play in the tie rod end or the inner tie rod but 1/8 in isn't enough (I don't think) to cause the problem you have. Remember that on a FWD you have to go by the settings for that particular car. There used to be kind of a rule of thumb many years ago with RWD but not any more. Some FWD cars have some toe out because the torque pulls the wheels in to straight ahead. Some use a 0 toe. I still say the only thing I've ever been aware of that causes the pull (R on deceleration and L on acceleration) is torque steer so there must still be a problem with the suspension somewhere. Still need to determine if the 1/8 in movement is tie rod end or inner tie rod.
Concerning the mounts, normally seperation is what you are looking for but some mounts are now fluid filled and I believe the front mount is kinda high tech, maybe a small hose going to it if I remember correctly.

HadYurPhil

The play would be in the inner tie rod as I replaced the outer one. The front mount is quite expensive, so it must be high tech. Again, I did try to raise the engine using blocks of wood and my floor jack and was not able to move it much at all. None of the mounts looked damaged and there is no vibration or other reported symptoms for bad motor mounts. Guess I'll try cranking the steering hard left to see how much of the inner tie rod is exposed and whether I need a "muffler clamp".

I think the tire wear is worse on the side with play.

Carver

I found my RX300 to be wildly sensitive to tire wear. When I got it the tires looked OK but it was all over the road on anything but super smooth surfaces but still tended to jerk left or right even then. A new set of tires and an alignment ended all that.

Your symptoms aren't exactly the same but don't discount the importance of tire condition.