Bogus Rear-Main Oil Leak?
06-02-07, 09:05 AM
#1
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Bogus Rear-Main Oil Leak?
I own the 1999 RX 300 with 110k miles on it. It has been nearly perfect in all aspects, but about 9 months ago (when I brought it into my local Denver Lexus dealer for the 105k service), they told me that I had an oil leak at the rear-main gasket behind the engine.
Get this - The COST to repair the leak was quoted at $1,250! Almost all of it was labor, 14 hours worth, to remove the engine. The rest was to replace the gasket, a $50 part. Naturally, I did not agree to do this, and asked the service guy if I could still drive the car with the leak. He said I could, and that it really wasn't visibly dripping, but that rather it was just moist at the edge of the gasket. He advised I check my oil periodically and look for oil pudddling in my garage. Since that time, I have done both, and see NO evidence of any oil loss or puddles. The car seems just fine.
My question, though, is whether this is a "ticking time bomb" that needs to be dealt with soon, or if it's just a bogus problem meant to enrich the Lexus dealer service department. I'm also worried about any repair in which the engine is removed. Sometimes, in fixing something, a service tech could create another problem. Removing the engine and then replacing it sounds risky to me, and I would worry that some other problem would follow shortly thereafter. Or, at least there could be a risk of that happening. Since I don't see any oil loss, should I even risk it? At $1,200+. the answer I've given myself has been NO, but I'd like to hear what you think.
Get this - The COST to repair the leak was quoted at $1,250! Almost all of it was labor, 14 hours worth, to remove the engine. The rest was to replace the gasket, a $50 part. Naturally, I did not agree to do this, and asked the service guy if I could still drive the car with the leak. He said I could, and that it really wasn't visibly dripping, but that rather it was just moist at the edge of the gasket. He advised I check my oil periodically and look for oil pudddling in my garage. Since that time, I have done both, and see NO evidence of any oil loss or puddles. The car seems just fine.
My question, though, is whether this is a "ticking time bomb" that needs to be dealt with soon, or if it's just a bogus problem meant to enrich the Lexus dealer service department. I'm also worried about any repair in which the engine is removed. Sometimes, in fixing something, a service tech could create another problem. Removing the engine and then replacing it sounds risky to me, and I would worry that some other problem would follow shortly thereafter. Or, at least there could be a risk of that happening. Since I don't see any oil loss, should I even risk it? At $1,200+. the answer I've given myself has been NO, but I'd like to hear what you think.
06-02-07, 10:31 AM
#2
Lexus Champion
Fortunately, you're able to tell how bad it is by the amount of oil it's dripping. Just keep an eye on it like the man said. I would do nothing if there's no visible leaks.
06-02-07, 10:35 AM
#3
Super Moderator
These things are no joke and they have happened to RX owners, but...
I have had leaks on the back of my transmission (my uncle and I sealed it up) and on my transfer case (I have AWD and that has not been sealed up for 5 years since I have owned it), but no issues.
If you don't have leaks, doesn't mean they don't occur. Some leaks might only be theoretically evident when the vehicle is being driven, as in the case of my transfer case, but if you have been diligent in checking your oil level and see nothing else, then you are ok.
Even if you did have a leak, I would recommend a product called Auto-RX. TunedRX300 has used this among RX owners and has had good results. With this product it has helped, though not every time, in fixing oil seal leaks in a lot of vehicles and this product has been talked about a lot on www.bobistheoilguy.com, it is only available online/mail order.
I have had leaks on the back of my transmission (my uncle and I sealed it up) and on my transfer case (I have AWD and that has not been sealed up for 5 years since I have owned it), but no issues.
If you don't have leaks, doesn't mean they don't occur. Some leaks might only be theoretically evident when the vehicle is being driven, as in the case of my transfer case, but if you have been diligent in checking your oil level and see nothing else, then you are ok.
Even if you did have a leak, I would recommend a product called Auto-RX. TunedRX300 has used this among RX owners and has had good results. With this product it has helped, though not every time, in fixing oil seal leaks in a lot of vehicles and this product has been talked about a lot on www.bobistheoilguy.com, it is only available online/mail order.
06-02-07, 10:43 AM
#4
Pole Position
I own the 1999 RX 300 with 110k miles on it. It has been nearly perfect in all aspects, but about 9 months ago (when I brought it into my local Denver Lexus dealer for the 105k service), they told me that I had an oil leak at the rear-main gasket behind the engine.
Get this - The COST to repair the leak was quoted at $1,250! Almost all of it was labor, 14 hours worth, to remove the engine. The rest was to replace the gasket, a $50 part. Naturally, I did not agree to do this, and asked the service guy if I could still drive the car with the leak. He said I could, and that it really wasn't visibly dripping, but that rather it was just moist at the edge of the gasket. He advised I check my oil periodically and look for oil pudddling in my garage. Since that time, I have done both, and see NO evidence of any oil loss or puddles. The car seems just fine.
My question, though, is whether this is a "ticking time bomb" that needs to be dealt with soon, or if it's just a bogus problem meant to enrich the Lexus dealer service department. I'm also worried about any repair in which the engine is removed. Sometimes, in fixing something, a service tech could create another problem. Removing the engine and then replacing it sounds risky to me, and I would worry that some other problem would follow shortly thereafter. Or, at least there could be a risk of that happening. Since I don't see any oil loss, should I even risk it? At $1,200+. the answer I've given myself has been NO, but I'd like to hear what you think.
Get this - The COST to repair the leak was quoted at $1,250! Almost all of it was labor, 14 hours worth, to remove the engine. The rest was to replace the gasket, a $50 part. Naturally, I did not agree to do this, and asked the service guy if I could still drive the car with the leak. He said I could, and that it really wasn't visibly dripping, but that rather it was just moist at the edge of the gasket. He advised I check my oil periodically and look for oil pudddling in my garage. Since that time, I have done both, and see NO evidence of any oil loss or puddles. The car seems just fine.
My question, though, is whether this is a "ticking time bomb" that needs to be dealt with soon, or if it's just a bogus problem meant to enrich the Lexus dealer service department. I'm also worried about any repair in which the engine is removed. Sometimes, in fixing something, a service tech could create another problem. Removing the engine and then replacing it sounds risky to me, and I would worry that some other problem would follow shortly thereafter. Or, at least there could be a risk of that happening. Since I don't see any oil loss, should I even risk it? At $1,200+. the answer I've given myself has been NO, but I'd like to hear what you think.
06-02-07, 11:11 AM
#5
As Lexmex mentioned Auto-RX may worth a try. $ back guarantee is what made me to use the treatment.
Lexus dealer replaced my leaking rear main seals twice in one year and couple months later my crankshaft seal starts to leak. Apparently the initial rear main seal was not the root cause and something else is wrong.
All dealer know is to surgically repair the seal, that is what technicians are trained to do. Problem is there are more elegant solution of letting chemistry to solve the seal, folks refuse to believe it and never try it out.
Lexus dealer replaced my leaking rear main seals twice in one year and couple months later my crankshaft seal starts to leak. Apparently the initial rear main seal was not the root cause and something else is wrong.
All dealer know is to surgically repair the seal, that is what technicians are trained to do. Problem is there are more elegant solution of letting chemistry to solve the seal, folks refuse to believe it and never try it out.
06-02-07, 11:21 AM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Removing the engine and then replacing it does have a certain amount of risk to it, but necessary if you want to replace the rear main seal. In your case I would just monitor the oil consumption and leak and take the engine removal risk if things get worse. Did the dealer happen to remove some type of aftermarket filter when he did the oil change and replace with Toyota/Lexus? I remember reading a post where someone had a Fram filter replaced with a Toyota/Lexus and claimed the rear main seal leak stopped. A second poster claimed the same. Possibly due to reduced pressure or maybe just coincidence.
You may want to try one of the many high mileage engine oils for your next change, which claim to help prevent seal leaks. If that doesn't do it there's always the Auto-RX route mentioned above.
You may want to try one of the many high mileage engine oils for your next change, which claim to help prevent seal leaks. If that doesn't do it there's always the Auto-RX route mentioned above.
06-02-07, 11:27 AM
#7
at 178k on my SC400, the rear main just decided to die, all of a sudden...
the car went from 100% dry underneath, to leaking a little more than a quart every 1000 miles... this happened overnight... one day everything was cool, next day, while driving, after leaving on a trip, within 50 miles, it started leaking (the oil smell was horrible for a while) as soon as I got to my destination (1200 miles later), I fixed it - new rear main seal...
en route, I tried everything, heavier weight oil, seal rejuvenator crap (obviously not the stuff mentioned earlier) and to absolutely no avail....
if it's just wet, drive it til it dies... if it's dripping, get it fixed fast...
the car went from 100% dry underneath, to leaking a little more than a quart every 1000 miles... this happened overnight... one day everything was cool, next day, while driving, after leaving on a trip, within 50 miles, it started leaking (the oil smell was horrible for a while) as soon as I got to my destination (1200 miles later), I fixed it - new rear main seal...
en route, I tried everything, heavier weight oil, seal rejuvenator crap (obviously not the stuff mentioned earlier) and to absolutely no avail....
if it's just wet, drive it til it dies... if it's dripping, get it fixed fast...
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06-02-07, 12:04 PM
#8
Pole Position
06-02-07, 12:41 PM
#9
Had my Rear Main replaced on 2001 RX 300
Hello,
I have a 2001 RX 300....My rear main seal went at 65K....The seal will eventually start leaking if there is a small leak now...I paid $800 at a Toyota dealer and got a labor rate of 50/hr...
The book value for the job is about 14 hours of labor but can be done in about 6-8 hours...
Find a Toyota mechanic to do it for you...
I have a 2001 RX 300....My rear main seal went at 65K....The seal will eventually start leaking if there is a small leak now...I paid $800 at a Toyota dealer and got a labor rate of 50/hr...
The book value for the job is about 14 hours of labor but can be done in about 6-8 hours...
Find a Toyota mechanic to do it for you...
06-02-07, 01:09 PM
#10
Hello,
I have a 2001 RX 300....My rear main seal went at 65K....The seal will eventually start leaking if there is a small leak now...I paid $800 at a Toyota dealer and got a labor rate of 50/hr...
The book value for the job is about 14 hours of labor but can be done in about 6-8 hours...
Find a Toyota mechanic to do it for you...
I have a 2001 RX 300....My rear main seal went at 65K....The seal will eventually start leaking if there is a small leak now...I paid $800 at a Toyota dealer and got a labor rate of 50/hr...
The book value for the job is about 14 hours of labor but can be done in about 6-8 hours...
Find a Toyota mechanic to do it for you...
toyota here charges $100 / hr, as an independent, we charge $79... $50 is super cheap...
06-02-07, 01:36 PM
#12
Super Moderator
Another thing you can try before Auto-RX is Restore, virtually any WalMart or auto parts store has it. Use the 4 cyl can. That has worked for a few friends of fine who had small leaks on some Japanese compacts here. Auto-RX can help fix, not just prevent, leaks, but again it doesn't work everytime and it depends on how big and where the leak is and some leaks just cannot be fixed without repair.
06-02-07, 05:11 PM
#13
Lexus Test Driver
06-02-07, 05:32 PM
#14
Actually both Auto-RX and high mileage engine oil is not a bad idea.
Auto-RX has three types of natural ester (fatty acid) to clean sludge off metal and seals. They are similar to base oil used in Redline engine oil and some of the additives used in synthetic oil. Ester is one of the synthetic components mentioned in Mobil's old Tri-Synthetic oil.
Seal conditioning additives in high mileage oil may then soften the seal rubber IF it is left dry and hard.
As Lexmex mentioned, no one can guarantee certain procedure/products works but $40 potential fix is a lot cheaper than $1000 solution.
Auto-RX has three types of natural ester (fatty acid) to clean sludge off metal and seals. They are similar to base oil used in Redline engine oil and some of the additives used in synthetic oil. Ester is one of the synthetic components mentioned in Mobil's old Tri-Synthetic oil.
Seal conditioning additives in high mileage oil may then soften the seal rubber IF it is left dry and hard.
As Lexmex mentioned, no one can guarantee certain procedure/products works but $40 potential fix is a lot cheaper than $1000 solution.
06-02-07, 08:07 PM
#15
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Thanks, everyone, for the great advise. Today, I ordered Auto-Rx off their website. Two bottles for $42 including shipping seems reasonable if it fixes the problem.
In the Auto-RX FAQ section, they advise against using high-mileage oil, and stress using dino oil as well. Something about high-mileage oil possibly weakening the seal.
I'll give this a try to see if it works.
In the Auto-RX FAQ section, they advise against using high-mileage oil, and stress using dino oil as well. Something about high-mileage oil possibly weakening the seal.
I'll give this a try to see if it works.
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