Why is the RCF so heavy
#31
Driver School Candidate
It is what it is. If you are unhappy change it up, if you cant / wont do that change to another manufacturer, but you will spend much more money from some of the other companies for the fit and finish Lexus offered.
#32
Lexus Champion
iTrader: (20)
we all know the RCF can get faster. all of us are in a new platform and the car is only 2 years old. the aftermarket now for the RCF is more than what the ISF was in 5 years when it came out and thats exciting.
#33
Man there are shots fired all over this thread! I guess that's what some members have been saying about ppl being jerks in the RC-F forums. Chill out...
Bottom line is yes, the car is heavy for the power Lexus gave it. You can debate that the weight is normal for a GT but Lexus purposefully advertised it as a competitor to the RS5, M4, and C63. Could it have been lighter? Yes. Do I dislike mine because of it? Nope, I got it $15-$17K less than the M4 I was considering. And THAT my friends makes all the difference (for me at least). And what ppl have been saying is right, just add some headers, the right exhaust system and a throttle controller and the conversation about its weight will be a non-factor. Those additions really make the car come alive in any environment.
Bottom line is yes, the car is heavy for the power Lexus gave it. You can debate that the weight is normal for a GT but Lexus purposefully advertised it as a competitor to the RS5, M4, and C63. Could it have been lighter? Yes. Do I dislike mine because of it? Nope, I got it $15-$17K less than the M4 I was considering. And THAT my friends makes all the difference (for me at least). And what ppl have been saying is right, just add some headers, the right exhaust system and a throttle controller and the conversation about its weight will be a non-factor. Those additions really make the car come alive in any environment.
#34
Man there are shots fired all over this thread! I guess that's what some members have been saying about ppl being jerks in the RC-F forums. Chill out...
Bottom line is yes, the car is heavy for the power Lexus gave it. You can debate that the weight is normal for a GT but Lexus purposefully advertised it as a competitor to the RS5, M4, and C63. Could it have been lighter? Yes. Do I dislike mine because of it? Nope, I got it $15-$17K less than the M4 I was considering. And THAT my friends makes all the difference (for me at least). And what ppl have been saying is right, just add some headers, the right exhaust system and a throttle controller and the conversation about its weight will be a non-factor. Those additions really make the car come alive in any environment.
Bottom line is yes, the car is heavy for the power Lexus gave it. You can debate that the weight is normal for a GT but Lexus purposefully advertised it as a competitor to the RS5, M4, and C63. Could it have been lighter? Yes. Do I dislike mine because of it? Nope, I got it $15-$17K less than the M4 I was considering. And THAT my friends makes all the difference (for me at least). And what ppl have been saying is right, just add some headers, the right exhaust system and a throttle controller and the conversation about its weight will be a non-factor. Those additions really make the car come alive in any environment.
Are the 2015 Lexus RC F and 2015 BMW M4 really competitors?
[img]cid:3A0056F3-718E-4476-8C39-6D5AF57F48BB@hsd1.ca.comcast.net.[/img]We argue no. The car magazines will set it up that way. Who do you think the cars' designers would agree with?The 2015 Lexus RC F and the 2015 BMW M4 may seem like natural competitors on paper, but are they really? The leading car magazines all have a frustrating tendency to compare not the most closely matched competitors to BMW by price, but rather whatever they feel is the most closely matched car based on layout and drivetrain similarities. The result of this is that the BMWs often are 10% or 20% more expensive than the Lexus and other cars that are matched up with the BMW. Only recently have the other brands started to win those comparisons, price be damned.
The coming 2015 Lexus RC F will be a coupe almost exactly the same dimensions as the new BMW 435i and M4. It will have a powerful normally aspirated 8 cylinder engine. BMW will stop using V8s this year, and it will instead use a turbocharged six cylinder engine. Albert Biermann, vice president of engineering for BMW, had an interesting perspective for this. In a Motor Trend interview published this month he said of Lexus using a V8 and BMW not using one in its M4 “I can only imagine that, for their customers, [5.0-liter V-8 and eight-speed automatic] is the right way to go. That would definitely not be the right way to go for our customers.” We find this fascinating because the 2013 M3 coupe used a V8, non-turbo engine and had an optional 7 speed automatic (DSG) transmission. Does this mean that all of the shoppers for that style of BMW up until this instant are now no longer interested in BMW V8s? Could BMW fans have decided overnight that BMW was wrong for the past few years, and they are super excited that the company is dropping 2 cylinders and the fastest shifting option from its top performance car? The car only switched away from this configuration three months ago.
Frankly, we think Mr. Biermann is right. He and also Lexus Yukihiko Yaguchi, deputy chief engineer, Lexus F, were both interviewed and asked about their cars by Motor Trend. In his answers, Mr. Biermann spoke of the M4 as a “race-car” or of it being used as a race-car 7 times in answering only 5 questions. None of the questions were “Is this a race car?” Mr. Yaguchi never mentions the Lexus RC F as a racing car. Instead, the Lexus guy spoke repeatedly about the RC F being enjoyable and drivable by anyone. That means proficient drivers and also regular folks. The divide between the cars is going to be enormous. One is designed as a powerful, luxury street car and envisioned by its designers as such. The other is a race-car that one can place a registration on and drive on the street. Yet, the mainstream automotive publications will inevitably compare the two head to head, on both roads and on the track and then (the reviewers all being proficient if not professional drivers) will anoint the more expensive BMW the winner.
#35
Lexus Test Driver
Who cares what magazines say. Most of them a FOS, biased, have agendas and most of the test drivers don't even have that much skill.
Tome, the RCF has a better feel and a better driver than both the M3 and M4. Sure, the Ms are quicker in a straight line, lighter and more agile in the hands of extremely skilled drivers 99% of whom drive them are not. I am still in disbelief that I actually purchased an M3 and already tried to trade it on Thursday after only 6 days of ownership, but got offered $62k trade even though only 421 miles and about an $80k MSRP.
Weight is not the issue. NA v. forced induction is the issue. Even Porsche finally gave in and went forced induction because NA engines simply cannot keep pace with or compete any longer unless you get super high end exotic engines.
Tome, the RCF has a better feel and a better driver than both the M3 and M4. Sure, the Ms are quicker in a straight line, lighter and more agile in the hands of extremely skilled drivers 99% of whom drive them are not. I am still in disbelief that I actually purchased an M3 and already tried to trade it on Thursday after only 6 days of ownership, but got offered $62k trade even though only 421 miles and about an $80k MSRP.
Weight is not the issue. NA v. forced induction is the issue. Even Porsche finally gave in and went forced induction because NA engines simply cannot keep pace with or compete any longer unless you get super high end exotic engines.
#36
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
Who cares what magazines say. Most of them a FOS, biased, have agendas and most of the test drivers don't even have that much skill.
Tome, the RCF has a better feel and a better driver than both the M3 and M4. Sure, the Ms are quicker in a straight line, lighter and more agile in the hands of extremely skilled drivers 99% of whom drive them are not. I am still in disbelief that I actually purchased an M3 and already tried to trade it on Thursday after only 6 days of ownership, but got offered $62k trade even though only 421 miles and about an $80k MSRP.
Weight is not the issue. NA v. forced induction is the issue. Even Porsche finally gave in and went forced induction because NA engines simply cannot keep pace with or compete any longer unless you get super high end exotic engines.
Tome, the RCF has a better feel and a better driver than both the M3 and M4. Sure, the Ms are quicker in a straight line, lighter and more agile in the hands of extremely skilled drivers 99% of whom drive them are not. I am still in disbelief that I actually purchased an M3 and already tried to trade it on Thursday after only 6 days of ownership, but got offered $62k trade even though only 421 miles and about an $80k MSRP.
Weight is not the issue. NA v. forced induction is the issue. Even Porsche finally gave in and went forced induction because NA engines simply cannot keep pace with or compete any longer unless you get super high end exotic engines.
#38
Pole Position
I totally remembered i saw an interview online where the Lexus engineer denied that the RCF is trying to compete with the BMW M4 ( or anything similar ).
Also the auto journals' articles favoriting the Euro brands basically caused a piled up of RCF inventory at the Lexus dealers and subsequently price drops. But now Lexus HQ had since adjusted its production so now the inventory is more rarer now.
The RCF is a hidden gem and tremendous value.
Also the auto journals' articles favoriting the Euro brands basically caused a piled up of RCF inventory at the Lexus dealers and subsequently price drops. But now Lexus HQ had since adjusted its production so now the inventory is more rarer now.
The RCF is a hidden gem and tremendous value.
#40
Pole Position
iTrader: (1)
Who cares what magazines say. Most of them a FOS, biased, have agendas and most of the test drivers don't even have that much skill.
Tome, the RCF has a better feel and a better driver than both the M3 and M4. Sure, the Ms are quicker in a straight line, lighter and more agile in the hands of extremely skilled drivers 99% of whom drive them are not. I am still in disbelief that I actually purchased an M3 and already tried to trade it on Thursday after only 6 days of ownership, but got offered $62k trade even though only 421 miles and about an $80k MSRP.
Weight is not the issue. NA v. forced induction is the issue. Even Porsche finally gave in and went forced induction because NA engines simply cannot keep pace with or compete any longer unless you get super high end exotic engines.
Tome, the RCF has a better feel and a better driver than both the M3 and M4. Sure, the Ms are quicker in a straight line, lighter and more agile in the hands of extremely skilled drivers 99% of whom drive them are not. I am still in disbelief that I actually purchased an M3 and already tried to trade it on Thursday after only 6 days of ownership, but got offered $62k trade even though only 421 miles and about an $80k MSRP.
Weight is not the issue. NA v. forced induction is the issue. Even Porsche finally gave in and went forced induction because NA engines simply cannot keep pace with or compete any longer unless you get super high end exotic engines.
Infiniti also went TT in their lineup. The VQ was a great na engine but could not keep up with its main competitor, BMW. Interesting enough, BMW went TT because their 3.0 Siemens could not keep
up with the VQ. I am patiently awaiting the release of the new TT Supra. This engine (and tuning capability) will eventually find its way to the F line.
#41
Lexus Test Driver
#42
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
#44
That BMW Engineer is an idiot. The way he answered one of the questions when MT interviewed Toyota/Lexus Chief
Engineer Yaguchi, creator of the RCF and Biermann, BMW Engineer:
What is the best high-performance car
out there today?
Biermann: That is a hard to answer question because I think we need to cut this in slices for segments, you know?
But the best one would be the M1 successor — if there were a successor.
Yaguchi: Porsche 911.
Basically, I "don't know" - but whatever it is, it must be a BMW product!? LOL!
Lexus RCF creator Yaguchi gives the obvious, correct answer: "Porsche 911"!
I respect that!
BMW is losing touch with reality and are caught in their own "echo chamber". They have NOT kept up with the times, the performance/value ratio
is way off the mark, reliability is an issue, and if they stay in the alternate reality - they'll fall further behind.
If I had interviewed him I would have asked him if he was the genius that started removing oil dip sticks and oil drain plugs from BMW'S??!!!
Engineer Yaguchi, creator of the RCF and Biermann, BMW Engineer:
What is the best high-performance car
out there today?
Biermann: That is a hard to answer question because I think we need to cut this in slices for segments, you know?
But the best one would be the M1 successor — if there were a successor.
Yaguchi: Porsche 911.
Basically, I "don't know" - but whatever it is, it must be a BMW product!? LOL!
Lexus RCF creator Yaguchi gives the obvious, correct answer: "Porsche 911"!
I respect that!
BMW is losing touch with reality and are caught in their own "echo chamber". They have NOT kept up with the times, the performance/value ratio
is way off the mark, reliability is an issue, and if they stay in the alternate reality - they'll fall further behind.
If I had interviewed him I would have asked him if he was the genius that started removing oil dip sticks and oil drain plugs from BMW'S??!!!
Last edited by gipsonke; 01-02-17 at 12:20 AM.