PMan

So far, based on sales, I think both could be considered a dud. The closest dealer to me has 5 2015 RCFs sitting on the lot. Three of them have been there for quiet a while, which is pretty bad considering the market in my area.

bassplayrr

I had the opportunity to test drive a loaded GSF in blue w/ orange calipers and personally preferred it to the RCF even at the added expense.

I followed the RCF for a good year prior to its launch and had the opportunity to test drive one around a track pre-release just over a year ago. While I really like the car, I ended up buying a fully loaded F80 M3 instead. Why? Despite the much higher MSRP (a hair under $90K for my M3) BMW Financial offered MUCH more lucrative financing/leasing options. I'm not sure that my M3 is worth ~$20K more than the RCF that I had on order, but the better deals made the monthly payment roughly equal. With a full leather interior, four doors, etc., the M3 won for me.

This GSF, however, changes the equation. I LOVE the interior, love the four doors, and like the larger interior as well. It was said earlier in this thread that, despite the higher MSRP, the GSF is actually the better value proposition. I can't say I disagree.

coolsaber

Thanks for proving my point. BMW is insane with their BMW FS trunk money, especially for leases. When the UDE happens again the deals will pop up, making even the GSF value proposition disappear.

There`s reason beside punching to BMWs sales #s

bassplayrr

Yep. I actually leased my M3 because the MSDs, low MF, and very high residual made it impossible to pass up. I swore I'd never lease a vehicle, but their deals are just that good. Had Lexus offered something even remotely competitive in this regard, I'd be driving the blue/grey Carbon I had on order. :/ Fingers crossed Lexus gets this sorted soon so I can buy/lease the LC500 when they're available.

DrRick

Who you tellin!!!!! Hahahaha

DougHII

Yep, the LC500 has a great look for a 2+2.

The Ms are really great cars, although I had a really horrible experience with mine. Purchased it after my 4 year-old came along and needed something with a bigger back seat than the Porsche turbos I used as daily drivers for years.

Went with RCF because it had a bigger back seat than the 911, it was new and sonething so different than what you see day in and day out if the road.

I do like the M6 Gran Coupe and would go with that, a matte grey AMG CLS or a Masserati if I had to have 4 doors, but I am a coupe guy and do see it anytime soon. Although I am a Porsche guy through and through, I just don't like the Panamerica. The GSF does not even remotely appeal to me and I am just not big on the looks.

I guess we shall see, but I just cannot imagine the GSF luring anyone away from the performance sedan market. Most of my contemporaries and friends drive M5s, 550s, AMG CLSs and Masseratis are pretty popular around here. I cannot imagine any of them being lured away by the GSF.

ISF001

You are missing the point: Lexus has reaped million after million in advertisement and resulting brand value from the F cars, and it will continue to do that as the brand association drives lower level car sales.

The Fs will continue to be the best cars in their class for a balance of performance and luxury. I, like most of you guys, can buy what you want. If you wanted a hellcat, you bought the wrong ride.

As much as I like the C7 Z06 with the Z07 package--and it's an awesome buy for a little over $100,000--it lacks the luxury that I require when I am not burning up the road. Really...how many of you are "tracking" the car 1-2 times per year? Most of our Fs will never see a track.

That's not to say the RC F is not track worthy--particularly in the hands of a "driver."




A tenth here, a tenth there...so what. The RC F is a phenomenal value and awesome machine. With that said, it's on to the next car in 2 years for me--hopefully the LC F.

Dud...what dud?

if you want to speak about duds we can talk about my M experience. Here's hoping those with M cars actually see their cars run the distance with minimal issues. My bimmer was plagued.

Ne1tHeRe

iTrader: (3)

This is the one main reason I went with my RC F over an Audi RS5, BMW M4, or MB C63 AMG: Reliability.

Yes, the RC F is a heavy beast (some call a gentle giant or dumbo...I like dumbo...haha) but it is a solid performer and reliable. It is a luxury sports car that will last the long haul. There will always be something bigger/better out there but you have to pick your poison and find a good balance that you will be happy with.

I still like the GS F but I prefer my RC F. It is up to what you need the car for...4 doors and larger interior is more practical for a family or having to drive around older family members...but that is why I bought the RC F and the GS350 AWD at the same time. Some people might want to combine the two into one for practicality or preference or what they can afford. All in all, the GS F is still a great car overall.

coolsaber

modern day 1st gen NSX i guess

7No

iTrader: (1)

I agree that the Lexus brand is tops in reliability, but I put over 50K on my RS5 and had no problems.

jspecvtec

iTrader: (4)

Maybe after 60k. It all went downhill for my bmw after 60k+ miles and when warranty expired. German engineers engineered parts to fail right after warranty. They're smart! Then we have to shell out a ton of money to fix it haha

7No

iTrader: (1)

The dealer that took it in trade told me a couple of months later that they were pissed because they had to replace the brake pads. Tango Sierra

Diesel350

PMan

My point has nothing to do with sales due to brand image or association, nor the sales of lower models. Yes the creation of the "F Brand" and more importantly the LFA brought attention to the brand and drove some sales. Yes, the F cars help, but I think its a stretch to say they are the driving force behind the sales of lower models. Not to say they have no impact, but I wonder how many will actually buy an RC after reading a review about the RC F. I think the reputation of Toyota/Lexus for reliability does more for sales than the F image, the kick *** customer service helps too. If there is data showing otherwise, I would like to see it.

My point was purely about the the sales of specifically the RC F and GS F. Neither has fared well in terms of sales, though I believe in time the GS F may start to do better. The RC F has not done well in reviews, though none of them were overly negative. Drag races and track battles have favored its rivals. To me, that does not help the "image", which does not help sales of the RC F.

Your point about a tenth here or a tenth there is very good, however right now a lot of customer care about a tenth here and a tenth there. Maybe not the guys on this forum, but the guy with the money that isn't really a car guy. He will go buy what the magazines say is faster, better, whatever. He will buy what feels better when he test drives. Also, thanks to programs like Siemens NX and Catia from Dassault, it's easier than ever to make a car be reliable for certain period, say 4yrs/50k miles for a BMW. Furthermore, most people that buy a new car these days, especially luxury cars, trade it in before the differences in reliability really start to show.

Last point. I'm buying a RC F or GS F in the next 4 weeks or so, my 335 is currently for sale. As much as I love how my 335 drives and how amazing the M5/M6 are. Despite the fact that I would love to drive one everyday and can feel difference when driving them around town. I simply will not buy a BMW again. Why? Reliability. In the past 6 months, my BMW with only 74K miles on it has left me stranded TWICE. Neither of my two LX470s have ever done that and both have over 180K miles on them.

So despite the performance deficit compared to the Germans, I'm buying a Lexus, because it will get me there and also get me back...a sentiment others here have mentioned. Few people look at cars this way, they want what the magazines say is best, and the sales reflect that. I stand by what I said about the RC F and GS F, those two models have been duds when it comes to sales, regardless of what impact they may have on the sales of other models.

SubOrbital

It's an F brand identity issue really. The only 'F' car to compete outright with an M car was the IS-F - it matched the E9x M3 specs very well. Now the true F cars compete with M Sport models, yet are still compared to the M cars. Lexus has failed in creating a brand identity and their sales figures versus MSRP reflects that.