tenac2215

So I got a w58 from eBay a couple months ago. The guy claims it is from a 1992 sc300. I think it is from an mk3 supra. From what I understood sc300 w58s all had steel sandwich plates. The one I got has an aluminum sandwich plate. The guy I bought it from says that the 92 sc w58s were different from the rest. Is this true? From what I can tell it does have a 2jz bell housing.




There are also other things that lead me to believe it is not from an sc and an mk3 supra, such as the trans mount, shifter, and the mechanical speed sensor









Anyone know if the 92 sc ever came with this kind of w58?
UPDATE: eBay guy says the mount is from ml3 but was installed Because the previous owner was planning to instal in a 240sx

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

We've never found evidence of any early SC300's even in the 1992 model year getting W58's with aluminum sandwich plates. They were all revised to steel plates from 1992 onward in SC300 and MKIV Supra applications.

Did the seller mean the little $50 rubber transmission mount was installed to fit into a 240SX... or that the entire tail housing with the in-line bolt holes was swapped JUST to be able to swap on an MK3 Supra rubber transmission mount?

I find the latter very hard to believe. Almost no one is going to go to the trouble of swapping out an entire SC/MKIV style W58 tail housing for an earlier (and less desirable) MK3 W58 tail housing when they could just make a custom transmission crossmember. And if an SC/MKIV W58 tail housing were available... why not just use the SC/MKIV W58 it came from? It's extra effort that just doesn't make sense. (unless we're already at the point where these gearboxes are getting cannibalized this badly for parts).

Swapping over the top shifter housing is easier but still requires opening the transmission to swap the internal shift arm. Still, people do that. Same goes for swapping out the 7M-GE bellhousing for a 2JZ bellhousing-- that's very easy to do.

tenac... all of this hypothetical extra effort is possible... but I do not believe that's what happened. And the aluminum sandwich plate combined with what is obviously an MK3 W58 tail housing leads me strongly to believe that you have an MK3 W58.

The seller either knows this full well or he doesn't really understand the differences and truly believes he has a "1992 SC300 W58"...... which he most definitely does not based on what you've shown me.

That rubber MK3 mount is on there because that's the only mount that fits that version of the transmission.

To all, if I've missed anything please feel to chime in and offer correction. But to me it seems very obviously an MK3 W58 that the OP has been sold instead of the SC300 W58 he was expecting.

tenac2215

He meant whoever was going to put it in the 240 was going to use the mk3 rubber mount. I remember there was another picture in his ad of an sc up on jack stands with the transmission being pulled out from under it on a trans jack. The seller swears that it was out of his sc. Also the bell housing is in very nice shape just like the rest of the trans case which makes me think it was on the trans for quite some time.
He says that the 1992 manual mount is unique for that year. On this point there is something strange because if you good a manual mount for a 92 sc300 (rock auto parts geek eBay) you will not see a mount that is similar to the one that is of a later year. However it looks to be the same as the automatic mount.
He denied my request for refund.
Also told me that there was "never a mk3 shifter with any bends, and there was no housings with an extension in mk3" like the one I have.
I don't know if he is crazy, actually knows something most people don't, or is just lying to me. He does have 100% feedback, and has been good with responding back to me.

I can't necessarily prove him wrong though because I can't find any pictures of a w58 pulled from a '92 sc.

The possibility of 92's being similar to mk3 supras is plausible since supras didn't change over until 93.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

^^ That's what I thought he meant. Please don't misunderstand-- the tone of my earlier post was NOT directed at you. It was directed at the guy on ebay who sold you an MK3 W58 claiming it was an SC300 W58.

He can swear it was from an SC all he likes but it was NOT from an SC300. You'd be surprised how clean you can get a transmission with some Simple Green, Greased Lighting and a LOT of brushes and elbow grease.

He's dead wrong and/or lying to you. Possibly he was lied to but I'm beginning to doubt that.

I gave RockAuto a quick look under "1992 > Lexus > SC300 > Manual Transmission > Transmission Mount"

And I got an oddball aftermarket brand that kind of sort of looks more like the SC300/MKIV W58 factory mount but with NO mounting holes visible. I'd never buy that or recommend it from the picture. The OEM mounts for the SC300/MKIV are still widely available (if that applied in your case).

Nonetheless it's the same part listed for 1992 and 1993 SC300's with manual transmissions on Rockauto. And it would be the same through 1997 M/T models.

If you go into any Toyota or Lexus dealer Trademotion EPC parts site you'll find that it's the same part number for the transmission mounts for 1992-1997 SC300 5-speeds and 1993.5-1997 Supra NA 5-speeds.

I would suggest you take it up with ebay but to explain all of these intricate differences in a transmission used in a few different Toyotas and one Lexus would probably be beyond the scope of what their terrible arbitration process would encompass.

Funny... I thought the buyer had more say in the eBay process these days...

He's WRONG. They just aren't the same bends you find on an SC300 or a Soarer shifter.

This is the only thing he's been correct about so far. The SC300 W58 shift housing extension was added to the transmission he sold you.

--He might be crazy
--He knows less than most people do about W58's (or he pretends to)
--He very likely is lying to you
--I so wish ebay didn't make leaving negative feedback difficult. You might have an easier time of it since in this case you are the buyer.

I understand this point. I am sorry that I cannot produce any pictures of a 1992 SC300 W58 transmission but if you look up any of the mounting parts for W58's in SC300's (not on Rockauto, Go to a Toyota or Lexus dealer EPC or a shop that sells OEM parts for SC's and MKIV's) you will absolutely see that it's the same transmission mount for all years 1992-1997 SC300 M/T.

Also, see the notes below regarding the cable-drive vs VSS sensor. There's another smoking gun as shown in the pictures you posted. Your W58 has a cable drive and not a VSS.

Here's the thing:

SC300's were released for sale sometime in 1991 (model year 1992). Before that, on the same assembly line the Soarer was being sold as early as 1990 (model year 1991 in Japan). The manual transmission setups in both cars and their engines were carried over from other models (even though the engines with manuals in both markets were different). The W58 and R154 were modified a bit from the earlier applications in order to accommodate the new JZZ30/JZZ31 chassis. The only thing they didn't change much of on the W58 and R154 were the shifter designs. All Toyota did was create extension housings, longer internal shift arms and shifters with more dramatic bends. But the tail housings of both gearboxes DID change along with the bellhousings and the use of a VSS sensor on both (*see below).

In 1991 or at latest early 1992 the Supra MKIII was being sold out of old stock while the assembly lines changed over to the newer common chassis R&D (Soarer > SC300 > MKIV).

While those cars were released the R&D on the new Supra MKIV was being completed. Again on the same assembly line we got the new Supra as a mid-year 1993 model (1993.5 model year). I'm not sure when they went on sale exactly but I've always heard it as 1993.5 for the USA. Now with the MKIV's ALL manual transmissions went to Toyota's new rear-drive M/T transmission shifter design ("tripod").

Supras got this on their W58's and V160's in 1993. Soarer's (R154) stayed with the old shifter system until 1994-95 models and SC300's stayed with the old system (W58) until model year 1995.

In all cases, any manual transmission that came from a 1992-1997 SC300 or from a 1991-2000 Soarer or a 1993-2002 (USDM and JDM) Supra MKIV with a W58 all used the same tail housing mounting holes on either R or W transmission and they all use the same transmission mount and crossmember.

Further: cable-driven speedo drive versus a Vehicle Speed Sensor

Only MK3 Supra W58's and R154's (or anything with an even earlier version of the W58 from a Celica-Supra, etc.) used cable-drive bungs for the speedometers. The transmission in the pictures you posted has a cable-drive area, not a VSS sensor. MK3 Supras used cable-driven speedometers and not electronic speedo sensors (VSS). All SC300's used a VSS sensor from the W58 transmission for their speedometers.

When I adapted a Supra MKIII R154 to my SC300 I had to use an aftermarket MC VSS adapter to interpret the mechanical cable drive area into a VSS signal that my SC300's cluster could understand. It would be EXACTLY the same scenario with an MK3 W58 transmission into an SC300. And that same area the adapter would screw onto is clearly visible in one of your pictures of the W58 you bought.

If it were actually from an SC300 you would have a VSS sensor in that location. You'd never swap out a VSS for a cable-drive just as you'd never swap an MK3 Supra W58 tail housing onto an SC300 W58. You also wouldn't swap out a steel sandwich plate for an aluminum one.

....

The only thing you would swap over ONTO this gearbox is the SC300 shifter extension housing (and matching shift arm) and the 2JZ bellhousing. Those are common and easy to do.

The rest of this ebay seller's arguments are complete bunk.

....

This guy is either lying his head off or he is truly confused. But what is certain, I'm sorry to say, is that he's charged you a steel-sandwich-plate W58 price for an aluminum-sandwich-plate MK3 W58 :/

Hopefully it's not an MK2 W58.

tenac2215

Thank you for all this information. I'm wondering if I should just send him this thread lol. Not sure what to do. I don't want to send the whole thing back because I already have it basically in the car. What i think is fair is about 400$ back. I already sent him pictures of the trans, comparing to sc300 w58s, comparisons of mounts, comparison of shifters, and comparisons of speedo sensors. I wonder if eBay would honor such a request for partial refund.

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Absolutely send him both threads if you want.

And by all means call a Lexus dealer as I suggested in the other thread to have them verify for you that it's the same W58 mount and crossmember part for 1992 and 1993-1997 M/T's.

What was the final sale price for this W58 if I may ask?

I do not know how much eBay will stand behind this. It can't be the first time a situation like this has come up but I don't know what their track record or policy is.

Having the transmission in the car already probably doesn't make it easier though :/

I am not up to speed on how MK3 W58's hold up against fully stock non-VVTI 1UZ's but I do think it's been done before.

Now if you need some additional support for mounting it up and getting it connected apart from the 1UZ swap kit you probably have already:

-- Marlin Crawler W-series/R-series VSS adapter (for the speedometer connection -- $50)
--Transmission mount:

A) Driftmotion MKIII R154 to SC transmission mount+crossmember kit
B) CXRacing MKIII R154 to SC transmission crossmember (uses an OEM MKIII Supra W58/R154 mount)
C) Used 1982-85 Celica W58 crossmember (too short on the right side so it must be cut, measured, extended and welded with new plate steel. This solution also uses an OEM MKIII Supra W58/R154 mount)

--Shifter... I think we've discussed the options already? I'd give the shifter you have a try first. Marlin Crawler bushing and seat tighten things up too.

tenac2215

He just sent me this picture saying this is what my mount should look like. I responded saying that is not oem fitment and an mk3 mount.

Looks like a homemade version of driftmotion's adapter. What trans is that?

Both the Marlin vss and driftmotion's adapter for r154 is on its way, should be here tomorrow. Shifter will work for now with console out,

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

HAHA!! He's serious? Definitely not OEM fitment. The spacers are a dead giveaway. NO original SC300 was given a spacer lowered transmission crossmember like that from the factory. Yes, that's not unlike Driftmotion's adapter. He has to know something is so obviously off there.

What he means is, "This is what your mount HAS to look like to use this version W58."

Aaron's (DM) kit is pictured with an MK3 R154. Same thing I have in my car. I used the cut/extended/welded '82 Celica crossmember as my mount solution. I could have used the DM kit as well.

So it does hit with the MK3 shifter in? Dang. I'd heard this but I wasn't entirely sure since my V3 doesn't hit. Did you take out the entire console or just the 5-speed bezel?

tenac2215

I don't know what else to say to him. I basically told him everything you said and even gave him part references when I initially asked him for the refund. After this picture all he said was "I don't know how to be any more clear".

As for the shifter, it hits the ashtray area. In this picture it is in 4th gear.


With the center console trim out I can get full movement so will work temporarily.


I might just have to skip him at this point and go through eBay.

tenac2215

That's not even a 2jz bell housing on there. That's a 7mge.
Mine

7mge

2jz

KahnBB6

iTrader: (5)

Well... he really did sell you a complete MK3 W58. He didn't change a single thing about it.

You're right about the bellhousing. I assumed but upon closer inspection it's got a 7M end still on it. At least you already had a JZ bellhousing.

Worse than that, however, I was wrong about the shifter extension housing on your W58. It's actually not from an SC300. It's still an MK3 housing, only I hadn't realized that they also got their own version of an extension. The SC300's version of the W58 extension is slightly longer than that as I just confirmed with this thread, Page 2 Post #30:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...00-swap-2.html

My sincere apologies for missing that detail also. Observing the pictures in your last post I thought your shifter, even for an MK3 type, was sitting much too far forward into the radio area. That's the reason why it's nearly hitting even while in 4th gear. The housing was never extended. It's just the factory MK3 Supra housing after all.

it turns out an MK2 Supra W58 housing is closer to what we'd all assume is a "non-extended housing"... but this isn't correct. W58's did get "extended" slightly for use in MK3 Supras, just not as much as the extension housings used on SC300 W58's.

I can take a picture of my own shifter setup too but the correct shifter and boot position in an SC300 is shown in this thread, Page 1 Post #1:

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/per...56k-no-no.html

This will be a lot more work to get set up correctly in your car and there is still the question of ultimate durability with this version of the transmission :/

tenac2215

Thank you Kahn for all of your info! I'm glad someone is knowledgable enough and able to help me! Waiting for him to respond to the bell housing proof for now.

I think I'll be able to make it work. Got the Marlin vss and the driftmotion adapter on the way. I think I'll try to have the shift lever modified in order to extend it back. If not, maybe the sc swan shifter could reach back close enough and just sit further up in the shift boot area