SC 300 Rebuild with GTE Head Gasket question
01-15-14, 11:10 AM
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SC 300 Rebuild with GTE Head Gasket question
So just putting this out there, Im new to this platform!
I traded a car for a stock 2jz GE 1995 SC 300 it has 109k on it and the motors out so I started buying parts to freshen the motor up while its out of the car.
Parts:
Cometic C4276 -051 -which is the stock 2JGTE size .051"
ARP studs
new water pump
Gates timing belt & tensioner
and the normal gaskets like cam seal, valve cover gasket...
Im looking to keep the around the same stock compression of the 2JZ GE motor while running the thicker head gasket! Then later down the line when more money is on the table I plan on running a single turbo set up, I m not looking for huge power at the end of the day mostly 350-400 hp range. shes my daily.
All the research ive done I couldnt find anyone rebuilding with at GTE thickness head gasket and staying NA.
Im looking for someone to guide me in the right direction with decking the head and what else I could do to maybe keep around the same compression so its not a dog for the next year. If the solution is simply just deck the head so its straight and just runt the motor at lower compression is that possible... or I could return this cometic head gasket and get one a bit thinner, I just was hoping to see or have input from people that have been in the same situation where your not going to turbo the set up right away but still drive it.
below is the research I have came up with:
My motor: 2JZ GE stock compressions is around 10:1 - 10.5:1
I will also be comparing a motor that comes in a Toyota supra: 2JZ GTE
These motors are similar but have their differences. The 2JZ GTE has recessed piston tops and a thicker Head Gasket to lower its compression to about 8.5:1
Also another difference is on My motor the 2JZ GE the combustion chamber is recessed about .025"
First My motor the 2JZGE motor retain roughly a .060" Squish area! This is what I think is the most important number and is what I would like to keep the motor at since it is the exact stock 2JZ GE Squish area measurement.
Head Gasket measurements (Stock) :
2JZ GE : .015" or .30mm
2JZ GTE: .051" or 1.295mm
The Head Gasket we purchased is a stock 2JZ GTE size at .051" or 1.295mm Cometic gasket
part number # C4276 -051
please guide me in the right direction or at the least link some information for me! thank you!
I traded a car for a stock 2jz GE 1995 SC 300 it has 109k on it and the motors out so I started buying parts to freshen the motor up while its out of the car.
Parts:
Cometic C4276 -051 -which is the stock 2JGTE size .051"
ARP studs
new water pump
Gates timing belt & tensioner
and the normal gaskets like cam seal, valve cover gasket...
Im looking to keep the around the same stock compression of the 2JZ GE motor while running the thicker head gasket! Then later down the line when more money is on the table I plan on running a single turbo set up, I m not looking for huge power at the end of the day mostly 350-400 hp range. shes my daily.
All the research ive done I couldnt find anyone rebuilding with at GTE thickness head gasket and staying NA.
Im looking for someone to guide me in the right direction with decking the head and what else I could do to maybe keep around the same compression so its not a dog for the next year. If the solution is simply just deck the head so its straight and just runt the motor at lower compression is that possible... or I could return this cometic head gasket and get one a bit thinner, I just was hoping to see or have input from people that have been in the same situation where your not going to turbo the set up right away but still drive it.
below is the research I have came up with:
My motor: 2JZ GE stock compressions is around 10:1 - 10.5:1
I will also be comparing a motor that comes in a Toyota supra: 2JZ GTE
These motors are similar but have their differences. The 2JZ GTE has recessed piston tops and a thicker Head Gasket to lower its compression to about 8.5:1
Also another difference is on My motor the 2JZ GE the combustion chamber is recessed about .025"
First My motor the 2JZGE motor retain roughly a .060" Squish area! This is what I think is the most important number and is what I would like to keep the motor at since it is the exact stock 2JZ GE Squish area measurement.
Head Gasket measurements (Stock) :
2JZ GE : .015" or .30mm
2JZ GTE: .051" or 1.295mm
The Head Gasket we purchased is a stock 2JZ GTE size at .051" or 1.295mm Cometic gasket
part number # C4276 -051
please guide me in the right direction or at the least link some information for me! thank you!
01-15-14, 11:14 AM
#2
There's zero point in using the gte headgasket if you're just gonna mill the head anyway. Unless your head HAS to be milled because its warped to ****. If not, then you're just completely throwing away money. Try to spend a good amount of time looking into what goes with these chassis' and engines. There's lots of info out there.
01-15-14, 11:53 AM
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There's zero point in using the gte headgasket if you're just gonna mill the head anyway. Unless your head HAS to be milled because its warped to ****. If not, then you're just completely throwing away money. Try to spend a good amount of time looking into what goes with these chassis' and engines. There's lots of info out there.
.027" -.051
so Im not wasting money there, The heads not warped but I do want it decked so just so its a clean install. cost 100 bucks, im not worried about that either...
Ive researched a good 8 hours solid trust me on that I didnt pull those numbers up top out of my ***. im just interested in running a thicker head gasket so i have no issues turboing the car down the line... n yes ive read the stock gasket can hold blah blah blah 350 hp possible, but while im in the motor and its out the car why not do some preventative work and use a thicker head gasket? To me thats not a waste at all. Any other recommendations or links would be great.
01-15-14, 01:19 PM
#4
I have a ge head I just shaved .027 to remove all the recess in the chambers (it had a bhg) and make it flat again, also new valve seals. with a tt headgasket it puts it back just a shade under 10:1 compression basically as close to stock as you want to get, but you have to run a tt headgasket.
any more off and you will be into the recess of the chamber.
this gives you optimal squish wile changing to a gte gasket, but the strength of the GE gasket and the GTE gasket are similar (ge is arguably stronger since its only 1 layer, but gte multilayer probably has more fudge factor for sealing).
you know if you don't lower the compression then you won't be able to run more boost. its not the gte gasket its that the gte gasket lowers the compression. people have hit 500+hp on the stock ge gasket and stock ge compression even with pump, it just takes precision tuning. lowering the compression gives you more room for error so you don't need that precision tuning to get there, but above a certain power limit, lowering the compression will be the only way to raise the boost and power, so decide on a power goal and fuel and tuning and then choose your compression.
Also you may want to do the valve stem seals now if you can as they will be more work later, decking is the cheap part, having someone do 24 valve seals starts to add up.
this is what it looks like. I decided not even to finish this motor so if you really want one PM me or something.
any more off and you will be into the recess of the chamber.
this gives you optimal squish wile changing to a gte gasket, but the strength of the GE gasket and the GTE gasket are similar (ge is arguably stronger since its only 1 layer, but gte multilayer probably has more fudge factor for sealing).
you know if you don't lower the compression then you won't be able to run more boost. its not the gte gasket its that the gte gasket lowers the compression. people have hit 500+hp on the stock ge gasket and stock ge compression even with pump, it just takes precision tuning. lowering the compression gives you more room for error so you don't need that precision tuning to get there, but above a certain power limit, lowering the compression will be the only way to raise the boost and power, so decide on a power goal and fuel and tuning and then choose your compression.
Also you may want to do the valve stem seals now if you can as they will be more work later, decking is the cheap part, having someone do 24 valve seals starts to add up.
this is what it looks like. I decided not even to finish this motor so if you really want one PM me or something.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 01-15-14 at 01:26 PM.
01-15-14, 03:12 PM
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I have a ge head I just shaved .027 to remove all the recess in the chambers (it had a bhg) and make it flat again, also new valve seals. with a tt headgasket it puts it back just a shade under 10:1 compression basically as close to stock as you want to get, but you have to run a tt headgasket.
any more off and you will be into the recess of the chamber.
this gives you optimal squish wile changing to a gte gasket, but the strength of the GE gasket and the GTE gasket are similar (ge is arguably stronger since its only 1 layer, but gte multilayer probably has more fudge factor for sealing).
]
any more off and you will be into the recess of the chamber.
this gives you optimal squish wile changing to a gte gasket, but the strength of the GE gasket and the GTE gasket are similar (ge is arguably stronger since its only 1 layer, but gte multilayer probably has more fudge factor for sealing).
]
01-17-14, 09:22 AM
#7
Thanks, I did too much reading on the SF thread about combustion chambers and this is what I ended up with. Still kind of want to slap a turbo on it and see how it performs.
GTE is 1.3mm or .050" and GE is like .3mm or .01"
GE is just on piece of metal with the viton coated sides.
GTE is several layers of metal with the viton coated sides.
GE is just on piece of metal with the viton coated sides.
GTE is several layers of metal with the viton coated sides.
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01-17-14, 11:02 AM
#8
You are completely missing the point and do not understand what's going on here. You're original post says you want to keep the same or near same compression as stock. Since shaving the head will raise compression, you wanna run the gte headgasket to bring the compression back near stock.
^ these are your words. Now, when you replied to my post you're saying that you wanna run the thicker headgasket to be able to run more boost later down the road.
^ These are also your words.
What you're not understanding, is that your compression will still be around stock. So there's basically no difference in using a thicker gasket after shaving the head compared to stock gasket on stock thickness head.
The gasket being thicker isn't what's better for the boosted engine, it's the thicker gasket with stock head which will bnring down compression.
I can understand the want for everything to be fresh. BUT if you're decking a head for no reason (youb said yourself its straight, SO THAT MEANS THERES ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, then I stress AGAIN that you're wasting money.
If the head is straight, as you say, then ideal money would be spent on valve stem seals as Ali suggested, along with a stock gasket to keep compression where you want it PER YOUR ORIGINAL POST, and maybe some head studs for piece of mind.
My point is, you're basically contradicting yourself because of a lack of understanding. Sorry you wasted 8 hours.
^ these are your words. Now, when you replied to my post you're saying that you wanna run the thicker headgasket to be able to run more boost later down the road.
^ These are also your words.
What you're not understanding, is that your compression will still be around stock. So there's basically no difference in using a thicker gasket after shaving the head compared to stock gasket on stock thickness head.
The gasket being thicker isn't what's better for the boosted engine, it's the thicker gasket with stock head which will bnring down compression.
I can understand the want for everything to be fresh. BUT if you're decking a head for no reason (youb said yourself its straight, SO THAT MEANS THERES ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, then I stress AGAIN that you're wasting money.
If the head is straight, as you say, then ideal money would be spent on valve stem seals as Ali suggested, along with a stock gasket to keep compression where you want it PER YOUR ORIGINAL POST, and maybe some head studs for piece of mind.
My point is, you're basically contradicting yourself because of a lack of understanding. Sorry you wasted 8 hours.
01-17-14, 11:49 AM
#9
yeah I had mentioned the compression would be around the same maybe a hair lower than 10, so Vrank is right there isn't a large boost related advantage unless you shave off somewhere in between stock and where I did it and give you mid 9's compression, like if you take off .010 and use a gte headgasket.
On my na-t I just took the head off cleaned it all up, through a gte headgasket and ARP studs and it went back together 30 minutes later and its still as healthy as ever. Point being if the head is not warped and is within spec and the finish is alright just throw it back on there after doing the valve stem seals... I didn't even do the valve stem seals on my na-t as we had the wrong spring compressors that day but my originals are still in good shape and no smoking but I am sure its on borrowed time at 145k on the motor, I imagine I will have to go back in there sooner or later and then it will likely get some cams.
On my na-t I just took the head off cleaned it all up, through a gte headgasket and ARP studs and it went back together 30 minutes later and its still as healthy as ever. Point being if the head is not warped and is within spec and the finish is alright just throw it back on there after doing the valve stem seals... I didn't even do the valve stem seals on my na-t as we had the wrong spring compressors that day but my originals are still in good shape and no smoking but I am sure its on borrowed time at 145k on the motor, I imagine I will have to go back in there sooner or later and then it will likely get some cams.
01-19-14, 12:55 PM
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You are completely missing the point and do not understand what's going on here. You're original post says you want to keep the same or near same compression as stock. Since shaving the head will raise compression, you wanna run the gte headgasket to bring the compression back near stock.
^ these are your words. Now, when you replied to my post you're saying that you wanna run the thicker headgasket to be able to run more boost later down the road.
^ These are also your words.
What you're not understanding, is that your compression will still be around stock. So there's basically no difference in using a thicker gasket after shaving the head compared to stock gasket on stock thickness head.
The gasket being thicker isn't what's better for the boosted engine, it's the thicker gasket with stock head which will bnring down compression.
I can understand the want for everything to be fresh. BUT if you're decking a head for no reason (youb said yourself its straight, SO THAT MEANS THERES ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, then I stress AGAIN that you're wasting money.
If the head is straight, as you say, then ideal money would be spent on valve stem seals as Ali suggested, along with a stock gasket to keep compression where you want it PER YOUR ORIGINAL POST, and maybe some head studs for piece of mind.
My point is, you're basically contradicting yourself because of a lack of understanding. Sorry you wasted 8 hours.
^ these are your words. Now, when you replied to my post you're saying that you wanna run the thicker headgasket to be able to run more boost later down the road.
^ These are also your words.
What you're not understanding, is that your compression will still be around stock. So there's basically no difference in using a thicker gasket after shaving the head compared to stock gasket on stock thickness head.
The gasket being thicker isn't what's better for the boosted engine, it's the thicker gasket with stock head which will bnring down compression.
I can understand the want for everything to be fresh. BUT if you're decking a head for no reason (youb said yourself its straight, SO THAT MEANS THERES ABSOLUTELY NO REASON, then I stress AGAIN that you're wasting money.
If the head is straight, as you say, then ideal money would be spent on valve stem seals as Ali suggested, along with a stock gasket to keep compression where you want it PER YOUR ORIGINAL POST, and maybe some head studs for piece of mind.
My point is, you're basically contradicting yourself because of a lack of understanding. Sorry you wasted 8 hours.
Okay we are close to being on the same page I completely agree with everything your saying...But my thoughts are right now im not gonna turbo it so that being said Id like it to perform near stock numbers... going the route Ali went it drops compression very slightly with a the gte spec cometic thickness gasket but end game if down the line I want to turbo the car I dont see why it wouldnt be better than me straight out turboing the car on a stock ge gasket compared to the thicker gte gasket regardless im saying the motor with the same compression and a thicker gasket will be stronger...
what im saying is i dont want to drop compression, Im never going to to want to make big power in this car I dont want anything crazy 350 to the wheels would be fine with me.. And i know thats achievable on a stock motor no problem...that being said does this make sense ?
01-20-14, 10:53 AM
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since your power goals are kind of mild keep the stock hg, do valve seals/clean up the head, and install head studs. If you do not need to deck the head then don't, theres no advantage to fixing something that doesnt need to be fixed.
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