Single turbo? splutters bad with vacuum connected to FPR
09-23-13, 01:16 PM
#1
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Single turbo? splutters bad with vacuum connected to FPR
Default Splutters bad with FPR Vacuum line connected
forgive me if you are on the supra fourms and you've seen this post, but I've been trying to figure out why my car haven't ran right sin I did my fuel and single turbo upgrade. it idle it runs fine, as well as if I baby it, but on step downs or hard accelerations it feels like its hitting a wall, like a bad misfire/ fuel cut/ boost cut. The plugs were checked and replaced at first. but it wasn't my problem. finally this weekend I took out some time to work on the car.
I spoke with a buddy of mine that suggested removing the FPR Vacuum hose, adjust the pressure to 43.5 psi and drive the car without the vacuum line connected and for the first time In two summers, Saturday was the first time I drove my car with boost without a problem. I couldn't adjust the boost pressure because on the first test drive I boosted up to 17psi with the boost controller shut all the way. the controller isn't doing the job so I disconnected it and ran my pressure line off the turbo straight to the wastegate which has a 10pounds spring in it. second drive I maintained 10 psi all the way through @ 10.0 AFR.
I'll be running 20psi not 10, and my concern is I may run leaner at 20psi without the vacuum line disconnected from the fpr. Do you guys know what would be causing a splutter with vacuum connected? these are my specs:
JDM 2jzgte/ Aristo Gs30o swap
650cc SD injectors
Adjustable FPR
3'' thick core intercooler
3" in, 3" out ( piping)
Borg warner S362 turbo
3" exhaust
AEM boost gage and wideband
NGk BKR7E .030
my second question is, I bought a new computer for my car but when I plugged it in my trac light came on and my OD light is flashing. my tranny isn't skipping gears but shifts at a higher rpm like I had my power turn on.
heater works, but ac compressor does not kick on. is it possible I got a computer from a vehicle that with a 2jzgte in it but doesn't have traction control or Ac:/? DTC 89/ something about a traction control to ecm harness. but everything works fine with my old computer plugs in only my car runs like crap.
Inputs anybody?
forgive me if you are on the supra fourms and you've seen this post, but I've been trying to figure out why my car haven't ran right sin I did my fuel and single turbo upgrade. it idle it runs fine, as well as if I baby it, but on step downs or hard accelerations it feels like its hitting a wall, like a bad misfire/ fuel cut/ boost cut. The plugs were checked and replaced at first. but it wasn't my problem. finally this weekend I took out some time to work on the car.
I spoke with a buddy of mine that suggested removing the FPR Vacuum hose, adjust the pressure to 43.5 psi and drive the car without the vacuum line connected and for the first time In two summers, Saturday was the first time I drove my car with boost without a problem. I couldn't adjust the boost pressure because on the first test drive I boosted up to 17psi with the boost controller shut all the way. the controller isn't doing the job so I disconnected it and ran my pressure line off the turbo straight to the wastegate which has a 10pounds spring in it. second drive I maintained 10 psi all the way through @ 10.0 AFR.
I'll be running 20psi not 10, and my concern is I may run leaner at 20psi without the vacuum line disconnected from the fpr. Do you guys know what would be causing a splutter with vacuum connected? these are my specs:
JDM 2jzgte/ Aristo Gs30o swap
650cc SD injectors
Adjustable FPR
3'' thick core intercooler
3" in, 3" out ( piping)
Borg warner S362 turbo
3" exhaust
AEM boost gage and wideband
NGk BKR7E .030
my second question is, I bought a new computer for my car but when I plugged it in my trac light came on and my OD light is flashing. my tranny isn't skipping gears but shifts at a higher rpm like I had my power turn on.
heater works, but ac compressor does not kick on. is it possible I got a computer from a vehicle that with a 2jzgte in it but doesn't have traction control or Ac:/? DTC 89/ something about a traction control to ecm harness. but everything works fine with my old computer plugs in only my car runs like crap.
Inputs anybody?
09-23-13, 05:02 PM
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What brand regulator?
What does fuel pressure do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
What does the wide and do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
I'd try sucking on the vac line to the reg to see if I got a mouth full of fuel. The problem seems isolated to the regulator. As long as its all connected properly, that'd be where I'd start.
Do not go boosting your car with the regulator disconnected from its boost reference.
Set fuel pressure without vac line hooked up, or rather pump on/engine off, same thing.
Also, do you still utilize the vac switching valve for the regulator? That's a no no.
What does fuel pressure do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
What does the wide and do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
I'd try sucking on the vac line to the reg to see if I got a mouth full of fuel. The problem seems isolated to the regulator. As long as its all connected properly, that'd be where I'd start.
Do not go boosting your car with the regulator disconnected from its boost reference.
Set fuel pressure without vac line hooked up, or rather pump on/engine off, same thing.
Also, do you still utilize the vac switching valve for the regulator? That's a no no.
09-24-13, 01:48 PM
#3
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[QUOTE=Elevated;8153870]What brand regulator?
What does fuel pressure do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
What does the wide and do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
I'd try sucking on the vac line to the reg to see if I got a mouth full of fuel. The problem seems isolated to the regulator. As long as its all connected properly, that'd be where I'd start.
Do not go boosting your car with the regulator disconnected from its boost reference.
Set fuel pressure without vac line hooked up, or rather pump on/engine off, same thing.
Also, do you still utilize the vac switching valve for the regulator? That's a no no.[
No sir, I don't. my VAC source is the port at the back of the TB.
without the vacuum connected, it rises to 43.5psi, and a bit lower with vacuum.
W/B reads 11.2 without VAC and 31.4 with vacuum. if I get fuel in my mouth, is it normal or that's a no no.. Yesterday I connected the VAC back up and it handled 10psi with no problems, stupid rich tho. 10.0afr. I think the FPR is junk because I didn't do much to the vacuum line or the adjustment on the regulator. I just reconnected it and went for a drive and the splutter went away, first time its ran right with the vacuum.
What does fuel pressure do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
What does the wide and do when you hook the vac line to the reg?
I'd try sucking on the vac line to the reg to see if I got a mouth full of fuel. The problem seems isolated to the regulator. As long as its all connected properly, that'd be where I'd start.
Do not go boosting your car with the regulator disconnected from its boost reference.
Set fuel pressure without vac line hooked up, or rather pump on/engine off, same thing.
Also, do you still utilize the vac switching valve for the regulator? That's a no no.[
No sir, I don't. my VAC source is the port at the back of the TB.
without the vacuum connected, it rises to 43.5psi, and a bit lower with vacuum.
W/B reads 11.2 without VAC and 31.4 with vacuum. if I get fuel in my mouth, is it normal or that's a no no.. Yesterday I connected the VAC back up and it handled 10psi with no problems, stupid rich tho. 10.0afr. I think the FPR is junk because I didn't do much to the vacuum line or the adjustment on the regulator. I just reconnected it and went for a drive and the splutter went away, first time its ran right with the vacuum.
09-24-13, 02:52 PM
#4
are you on the JDM aristo ecu? 650 is alot of injector for that without a controller its normally supposed to be 440.
you could have put in a JDM supra ecu that would run the car but has a different a/c setup and possibly trac setup.
sounds like its your regulator, you shouldn't get fuel from the vac line, you possibly have a ruptured diaphragm in the regulator. I would never even have tried boosting without a boost referenced regulator.
did you say the wideband read 31.4 with vacuum? thats incredibly lean and it is most likely the regulator not working correctly.
you could have put in a JDM supra ecu that would run the car but has a different a/c setup and possibly trac setup.
sounds like its your regulator, you shouldn't get fuel from the vac line, you possibly have a ruptured diaphragm in the regulator. I would never even have tried boosting without a boost referenced regulator.
did you say the wideband read 31.4 with vacuum? thats incredibly lean and it is most likely the regulator not working correctly.
09-24-13, 06:22 PM
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are you on the JDM aristo ecu? 650 is alot of injector for that without a controller its normally supposed to be 440.
you could have put in a JDM supra ecu that would run the car but has a different a/c setup and possibly trac setup.
sounds like its your regulator, you shouldn't get fuel from the vac line, you possibly have a ruptured diaphragm in the regulator. I would never even have tried boosting without a boost referenced regulator.
did you say the wideband read 31.4 with vacuum? thats incredibly lean and it is most likely the regulator not working correctly.
you could have put in a JDM supra ecu that would run the car but has a different a/c setup and possibly trac setup.
sounds like its your regulator, you shouldn't get fuel from the vac line, you possibly have a ruptured diaphragm in the regulator. I would never even have tried boosting without a boost referenced regulator.
did you say the wideband read 31.4 with vacuum? thats incredibly lean and it is most likely the regulator not working correctly.
going back to the 13.4 at idle is that really lean like you said? It'd be nice to understand AFR better cuz it seems everybody have a different opinion about a safe afr. from my understanding I though at idle, or cruising with no load I want to be close to or at 14.7/ stoich if achievable. boosting depending on how many pounds I'd say 11.2 ish:/?
If I flattens out the SAFC settings to +-0 across the board at idle my afr drops to 11.2 which is stupid rich which is why I took away some fuel for idle. I got close to 14.7 which was steady but when my cooling fans come on the car starts to run lean so I brought it down to 13.4 which is where its happy.., idles fine, and is maintained when the fan come on. what you guys recommend for idle, cruising, and boosting just for the knowledge.
09-24-13, 06:35 PM
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Idle and cruise around 15afr even, boost is dependent on how much and what fuel type. Sounds like a junk regulator. Post part numbe for ecu and ill tell you what it came from.
09-24-13, 06:42 PM
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i'm running premium 93. and I'm gonna assume the fpr can be bad even though it reads properly on the gage?
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09-24-13, 06:49 PM
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Yeah 15. I say that because generally 14.5-15.2 is normal, and yeah, for can still be bad. You don't know what it reads when you're hittin boost. Getting it on a dyno would make it where someone could watch it. What brand regulator? If you say eBay, knockoff, then toss it. NEVER skimp on fuel stuff
09-24-13, 06:57 PM
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Yeah 15. I say that because generally 14.5-15.2 is normal, and yeah, for can still be bad. You don't know what it reads when you're hittin boost. Getting it on a dyno would make it where someone could watch it. What brand regulator? If you say eBay, knockoff, then toss it. NEVER skimp on fuel stuff
09-25-13, 05:33 AM
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Magnafuel, aeromotive. My choices for most street cars needs. In preferred order.
If your fpr kit came with hoses, ditch those too. I am all about using home made stuff or stuff scavanged from other applications, but I always spend the money on proper quality controlled fuel system parts and wastegates. You can get away with make do stuff in a lot of other places, but fuel and wastegates can cause super bad problems. Insurance.
If your fpr kit came with hoses, ditch those too. I am all about using home made stuff or stuff scavanged from other applications, but I always spend the money on proper quality controlled fuel system parts and wastegates. You can get away with make do stuff in a lot of other places, but fuel and wastegates can cause super bad problems. Insurance.
09-25-13, 09:22 AM
#11
I just bought a new ecu because I had a feeling the aristo ecu I got with my swap was causing problems. the one I have right is I believe is for a supra because my ac don't work, and my trac light came on, with OD flashing when I plug it in but it tends to run the car a lot better than the other ecu. and yea, I'm replacing the fpr.
going back to the 13.4 at idle is that really lean like you said? It'd be nice to understand AFR better cuz it seems everybody have a different opinion about a safe afr. from my understanding I though at idle, or cruising with no load I want to be close to or at 14.7/ stoich if achievable. boosting depending on how many pounds I'd say 11.2 ish:/?
If I flattens out the SAFC settings to +-0 across the board at idle my afr drops to 11.2 which is stupid rich which is why I took away some fuel for idle. I got close to 14.7 which was steady but when my cooling fans come on the car starts to run lean so I brought it down to 13.4 which is where its happy.., idles fine, and is maintained when the fan come on. what you guys recommend for idle, cruising, and boosting just for the knowledge.
going back to the 13.4 at idle is that really lean like you said? It'd be nice to understand AFR better cuz it seems everybody have a different opinion about a safe afr. from my understanding I though at idle, or cruising with no load I want to be close to or at 14.7/ stoich if achievable. boosting depending on how many pounds I'd say 11.2 ish:/?
If I flattens out the SAFC settings to +-0 across the board at idle my afr drops to 11.2 which is stupid rich which is why I took away some fuel for idle. I got close to 14.7 which was steady but when my cooling fans come on the car starts to run lean so I brought it down to 13.4 which is where its happy.., idles fine, and is maintained when the fan come on. what you guys recommend for idle, cruising, and boosting just for the knowledge.
On your wideband, the green yellow and red ranges, those are general warning and being in the yellow/red at idle is not a problem, but in boost if you see it in the yellow or red that is a huge problem. the wideband does not know you are in boost or not, so do not pay attention to the colors unless you are in boost is a good way to look at it.
Idle should be 14.0-15.0 generally with closer to 14.7 being perfect for idle.
Cruise should be 14.5 to 15.5 (even up to 16 is ok even though the gauge is red)
with a little bit of load you want it to richen up to the 13's or mid 12's.
once you hit boost you should be below 12.5 and usually the gte ecu's go in the 10-11 range.
You are going to be chasing your tail if you continue down this route, because you have way overcomplicated a very simple setup by trying to use an aftermarket regulator that does not work. please take off your ebay fuel pressure regulator and put the stock one back on. Is there a reason you got rid of the stock one because they tend to work perfectly. If someone gave you advice to change this at your current power levels, they are just complicating your setup for no good reason.
use the stock regulator, and use safc to compensate for the larger injectors.
tons of people run this setup with little to no issues, and it will be ok for your fuel ratios to be a little bit richer than posted above due to the injector difference, but with some safc correction it should get close, and when you get close, the stock ecu uses the o2 sensor to fine tune the rest. if you are not close the ecu will struggle to be consistent.
The reason its not consistent now is because your fuel pressure does not vary with engine load (the vacuum line does that), so you can tune one load with the safc, but all the other loads will be off and the ecu does not understand why. When you do have the line connected the fuel pressure regulator is either broken or leaking internally, sucking in gas when in vacuum, and when in boost you are pressurizing both sides of the diaphragm (if its ruptured) which can do lots of bad things.
I would go back to the stock regulator, unless you have larger fuel lines for the feed and return, then get a quality aftermarket one that works, but generally if you are using the stock lines and rail there is no reason to use an aftermarket one, you shouldn't be adjusting the fuel pressure with a stock ecu much anyways it will just throw it off.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 09-25-13 at 09:32 AM.
09-25-13, 04:58 PM
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13.4 is ok, but do realize that is a little rich. your original post said 31.4 which would be ridiculously lean meaning the engine would not run so that was my confusion. you should be 14.7 but your injectors and fuel pressure situation are giving you more fuel, 13.4 is richer than 14.7 and is a bit rich for idle really, but not out of the ballpark or anything.
On your wideband, the green yellow and red ranges, those are general warning and being in the yellow/red at idle is not a problem, but in boost if you see it in the yellow or red that is a huge problem. the wideband does not know you are in boost or not, so do not pay attention to the colors unless you are in boost is a good way to look at it.
Idle should be 14.0-15.0 generally with closer to 14.7 being perfect for idle.
Cruise should be 14.5 to 15.5 (even up to 16 is ok even though the gauge is red)
with a little bit of load you want it to richen up to the 13's or mid 12's.
once you hit boost you should be below 12.5 and usually the gte ecu's go in the 10-11 range.
You are going to be chasing your tail if you continue down this route, because you have way overcomplicated a very simple setup by trying to use an aftermarket regulator that does not work. please take off your ebay fuel pressure regulator and put the stock one back on. Is there a reason you got rid of the stock one because they tend to work perfectly. If someone gave you advice to change this at your current power levels, they are just complicating your setup for no good reason.
use the stock regulator, and use safc to compensate for the larger injectors.
tons of people run this setup with little to no issues, and it will be ok for your fuel ratios to be a little bit richer than posted above due to the injector difference, but with some safc correction it should get close, and when you get close, the stock ecu uses the o2 sensor to fine tune the rest. if you are not close the ecu will struggle to be consistent.
The reason its not consistent now is because your fuel pressure does not vary with engine load (the vacuum line does that), so you can tune one load with the safc, but all the other loads will be off and the ecu does not understand why. When you do have the line connected the fuel pressure regulator is either broken or leaking internally, sucking in gas when in vacuum, and when in boost you are pressurizing both sides of the diaphragm (if its ruptured) which can do lots of bad things.
I would go back to the stock regulator, unless you have larger fuel lines for the feed and return, then get a quality aftermarket one that works, but generally if you are using the stock lines and rail there is no reason to use an aftermarket one, you shouldn't be adjusting the fuel pressure with a stock ecu much anyways it will just throw it off.
On your wideband, the green yellow and red ranges, those are general warning and being in the yellow/red at idle is not a problem, but in boost if you see it in the yellow or red that is a huge problem. the wideband does not know you are in boost or not, so do not pay attention to the colors unless you are in boost is a good way to look at it.
Idle should be 14.0-15.0 generally with closer to 14.7 being perfect for idle.
Cruise should be 14.5 to 15.5 (even up to 16 is ok even though the gauge is red)
with a little bit of load you want it to richen up to the 13's or mid 12's.
once you hit boost you should be below 12.5 and usually the gte ecu's go in the 10-11 range.
You are going to be chasing your tail if you continue down this route, because you have way overcomplicated a very simple setup by trying to use an aftermarket regulator that does not work. please take off your ebay fuel pressure regulator and put the stock one back on. Is there a reason you got rid of the stock one because they tend to work perfectly. If someone gave you advice to change this at your current power levels, they are just complicating your setup for no good reason.
use the stock regulator, and use safc to compensate for the larger injectors.
tons of people run this setup with little to no issues, and it will be ok for your fuel ratios to be a little bit richer than posted above due to the injector difference, but with some safc correction it should get close, and when you get close, the stock ecu uses the o2 sensor to fine tune the rest. if you are not close the ecu will struggle to be consistent.
The reason its not consistent now is because your fuel pressure does not vary with engine load (the vacuum line does that), so you can tune one load with the safc, but all the other loads will be off and the ecu does not understand why. When you do have the line connected the fuel pressure regulator is either broken or leaking internally, sucking in gas when in vacuum, and when in boost you are pressurizing both sides of the diaphragm (if its ruptured) which can do lots of bad things.
I would go back to the stock regulator, unless you have larger fuel lines for the feed and return, then get a quality aftermarket one that works, but generally if you are using the stock lines and rail there is no reason to use an aftermarket one, you shouldn't be adjusting the fuel pressure with a stock ecu much anyways it will just throw it off.
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