w59 transmission on sc300?
03-06-13, 09:10 AM
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w59 transmission on sc300?
I am currently starting my project: swapping a 2jzgte into a manual sc300. I was always planning on getting a costly R154 transmission but I heard about an is300 na-t with a w59 tranmission out of a toyota tacoma. I believe it can be bolted onto the engine as long as I use the w58's bellhousing. I am aiming for reliable 400whp with some room to increase in power in the future.
My questions
1. Does any know if it will fit in the sc300 without needing any modifications to make the shifter fit centered?
2. Does anyone know how much stronger than the w58 is the w59?
3. What do you guys think about this approach? I think I can find a w59 for about $400 and a R154 for possibly $1200 including everything to fit into the sc300.
Thank you for the help.
The following was taken from Wikipedia
W59
A common truck transmission, this was the successor to the W56. Like the W56, it came in both 2-wheel and 4-wheel drive versions.
This model appears to have a combination of ratios used in older models of the W-series.
1st and 2nd are low ratios like in the W56 for use to get a heavy vehicle moving.
3rd ratio is the same as in the W57/W58 for a lower rpm drop between 3rd & 4th useful in high-speed acceleration.
4th is direct 1:1 as per design in these boxes.
5th seems to be the base W55 overdrive ratio.
Ratios:
First Gear: 3.954:1
Second Gear: 2.141:1
Third Gear: 1.384:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.81:1
R154
This is a robust 5-speed transmission found in the MKIII Supra Turbo, Toyota Chaser Tourer V, Toyota Mark II Tourer V, Toyota Cresta Tourer V, and Toyota Soarer (turbo) up to 2004.
Ratios:
First Gear: 3.250:1
Second Gear: 1.955:1
Third Gear: 1.310:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.753:1
W58
Toyota lists a change from an alloy sandwich plate to a steel sandwich plate around 1989. The steel sandwich plate has some minor internal differences, and it is believed to be slightly stronger (some wider bearings, some wider gears, slightly different gear selection mechanism, etc.). In theory the all-alloy version of the W58 should be exactly the same strength as any other all-alloy W-Series transmission. The steel plate version is considered much harder to find and worth approximately three to five times as much as an all alloy version.
The ratios and bolt patterns remain the same regardless of the sandwich plate used.
The W58 & W57 share the highest gearing and closest ratios (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (direct)) of the stock W-Series transmissions.
The ratio shift was accomplished by taking the W55 base ratios and changing the input shaft to intermediate shaft ratio by 7.9%, thus shifting 1, 2, 3 ratios higher by that amount. This also shifted the overdrive 5th gear higher by the same amount creating a wider and taller overdrive ratio.
The W58 is sometimes designated as a "close-ratio transmission"; however, in its stock form it does not meet all the criteria for a close-ratio box.
Toyota engineers have shown favor to the W58 over the rest of the 'W' series by including it in so many models and even building a stronger version for higher powered applications.
Ratios:
First Gear: 3.285:1
Second Gear: 1.894:1
Third Gear: 1.275:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.783:1
Reverse: -3.768:1
I calculated the gear ratios
4.08 is the stock differential
3.91 is an is300 differential
3.769 is a supra mk4 differential
I will probably end up going with the 3.769 when I find one but I'm not sure yet.
w58
4.08
3.285 13.4028
1.894 7.72752
1.275 5.202
1 4.08
0.783 3.19464
-3.768 -15.37344
w58
3.91
3.285 12.84435
1.894 7.40554
1.275 4.98525
1 3.91
0.783 3.06153
-3.768 -14.73288
w58
3.769
3.285 12.381165
1.894 7.138486
1.275 4.805475
1 3.769
0.783 2.951127
-3.768 -14.201592
w59
4.08
3.954 16.13232
2.141 8.73528
1.384 5.64672
1 4.08
0.81 3.3048
w59
3.91
3.954 15.46014
2.141 8.37131
1.384 5.41144
1 3.91
0.81 3.1671
w59
3.769
3.954 14.902626
2.141 8.069429
1.384 5.216296
1 3.769
0.81 3.05289
r154
4.08
3.251 13.26408
1.955 7.9764
1.31 5.3448
1 4.08
0.753 3.07224
r154
3.91
3.251 12.71141
1.955 7.64405
1.31 5.1221
1 3.91
0.753 2.94423
r154
3.769
3.251 12.253019
1.955 7.368395
1.31 4.93739
1 3.769
0.753 2.838057
My questions
1. Does any know if it will fit in the sc300 without needing any modifications to make the shifter fit centered?
2. Does anyone know how much stronger than the w58 is the w59?
3. What do you guys think about this approach? I think I can find a w59 for about $400 and a R154 for possibly $1200 including everything to fit into the sc300.
Thank you for the help.
The following was taken from Wikipedia
W59
A common truck transmission, this was the successor to the W56. Like the W56, it came in both 2-wheel and 4-wheel drive versions.
This model appears to have a combination of ratios used in older models of the W-series.
1st and 2nd are low ratios like in the W56 for use to get a heavy vehicle moving.
3rd ratio is the same as in the W57/W58 for a lower rpm drop between 3rd & 4th useful in high-speed acceleration.
4th is direct 1:1 as per design in these boxes.
5th seems to be the base W55 overdrive ratio.
Ratios:
First Gear: 3.954:1
Second Gear: 2.141:1
Third Gear: 1.384:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.81:1
R154
This is a robust 5-speed transmission found in the MKIII Supra Turbo, Toyota Chaser Tourer V, Toyota Mark II Tourer V, Toyota Cresta Tourer V, and Toyota Soarer (turbo) up to 2004.
Ratios:
First Gear: 3.250:1
Second Gear: 1.955:1
Third Gear: 1.310:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.753:1
W58
Toyota lists a change from an alloy sandwich plate to a steel sandwich plate around 1989. The steel sandwich plate has some minor internal differences, and it is believed to be slightly stronger (some wider bearings, some wider gears, slightly different gear selection mechanism, etc.). In theory the all-alloy version of the W58 should be exactly the same strength as any other all-alloy W-Series transmission. The steel plate version is considered much harder to find and worth approximately three to five times as much as an all alloy version.
The ratios and bolt patterns remain the same regardless of the sandwich plate used.
The W58 & W57 share the highest gearing and closest ratios (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (direct)) of the stock W-Series transmissions.
The ratio shift was accomplished by taking the W55 base ratios and changing the input shaft to intermediate shaft ratio by 7.9%, thus shifting 1, 2, 3 ratios higher by that amount. This also shifted the overdrive 5th gear higher by the same amount creating a wider and taller overdrive ratio.
The W58 is sometimes designated as a "close-ratio transmission"; however, in its stock form it does not meet all the criteria for a close-ratio box.
Toyota engineers have shown favor to the W58 over the rest of the 'W' series by including it in so many models and even building a stronger version for higher powered applications.
Ratios:
First Gear: 3.285:1
Second Gear: 1.894:1
Third Gear: 1.275:1
Fourth Gear: 1.00:1
Fifth Gear: 0.783:1
Reverse: -3.768:1
I calculated the gear ratios
4.08 is the stock differential
3.91 is an is300 differential
3.769 is a supra mk4 differential
I will probably end up going with the 3.769 when I find one but I'm not sure yet.
w58
4.08
3.285 13.4028
1.894 7.72752
1.275 5.202
1 4.08
0.783 3.19464
-3.768 -15.37344
w58
3.91
3.285 12.84435
1.894 7.40554
1.275 4.98525
1 3.91
0.783 3.06153
-3.768 -14.73288
w58
3.769
3.285 12.381165
1.894 7.138486
1.275 4.805475
1 3.769
0.783 2.951127
-3.768 -14.201592
w59
4.08
3.954 16.13232
2.141 8.73528
1.384 5.64672
1 4.08
0.81 3.3048
w59
3.91
3.954 15.46014
2.141 8.37131
1.384 5.41144
1 3.91
0.81 3.1671
w59
3.769
3.954 14.902626
2.141 8.069429
1.384 5.216296
1 3.769
0.81 3.05289
r154
4.08
3.251 13.26408
1.955 7.9764
1.31 5.3448
1 4.08
0.753 3.07224
r154
3.91
3.251 12.71141
1.955 7.64405
1.31 5.1221
1 3.91
0.753 2.94423
r154
3.769
3.251 12.253019
1.955 7.368395
1.31 4.93739
1 3.769
0.753 2.838057
03-06-13, 10:40 AM
#2
If you ever plan on going above 400hp, then get an r154. its really that simple.
Unless you stay under 400hp on your na-t, the w55/56/58/59 will not hold last reliably.
from a cost standpoint, if you are swapping a manual in and you don't have one already, the r154 shouldn't cost that much more than a w58 except for the bell housing and shifter extension. the added expense of those 2 items greatly outweigh the cost in terms of reliability hands down.
If you break the w series even once, imagine how much more you would have spent to go r154 after that, instead of just going r154 in the first place. take it from me I am still on my factory w58 and na-t and that is my main limitation for turning up the boost. Once people go over 4xxhp with the W series, its basically a game of chance at that point. more break it than don't. Up to that power it is quite a stout trans, it will take a stock 1uz or even a mild na-t build but not much more as in I would keep it under 1 bar of boost.
Unless you stay under 400hp on your na-t, the w55/56/58/59 will not hold last reliably.
from a cost standpoint, if you are swapping a manual in and you don't have one already, the r154 shouldn't cost that much more than a w58 except for the bell housing and shifter extension. the added expense of those 2 items greatly outweigh the cost in terms of reliability hands down.
If you break the w series even once, imagine how much more you would have spent to go r154 after that, instead of just going r154 in the first place. take it from me I am still on my factory w58 and na-t and that is my main limitation for turning up the boost. Once people go over 4xxhp with the W series, its basically a game of chance at that point. more break it than don't. Up to that power it is quite a stout trans, it will take a stock 1uz or even a mild na-t build but not much more as in I would keep it under 1 bar of boost.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-06-13 at 10:45 AM.
03-06-13, 11:56 AM
#4
r154 or die... but seriously if you're looking to save bucks get an mk3 r154 pickup all your parts used spend some time shopping around instead of buying the first ones you see (1jz/r154 bellhousing is getting hard to find second hand now 
) make friends with someone that can tig to do your extension properly
) make friends with someone that can tig to do your extension properly
03-06-13, 12:48 PM
#5
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Thanks for the feedback. I was always planing on going R154 until I met the guy with a w59 in his is300. He said it can hold 600 horsepower but I cant find that anywhere.
03-06-13, 01:26 PM
#6
there are so many things wrong with what he told you I'm not sure I know where to begin.
The 2jzge vvti bottom end will grenade almost as badly as a W series trans would at 600hp.
As I said, at lower power levels, one can get away with using a w series trans, and if you are na-t on a vvti motor which has the skinniest rods of any JZ motor , you aren't really limiting yourself that much more cause most don't go over 500 without changing out the internals.
But if you have a non-vvti motorset, going above 400hp is all too common and easy, so the only thing that would be limiting you is the trans you choose, so in that case it makes sense to match the R154 which can handle 6-700 under the right conditions to your internally stronger non vvti motor which can handle 6-700 with a tt headgasket.
So it really depends on your power goals, a w series would get the job done to a certain point, but useless above that.
and a newer W series trans won't be stronger really, it would only be smoother from synchro design etc. if even that.
The 2jzge vvti bottom end will grenade almost as badly as a W series trans would at 600hp.
As I said, at lower power levels, one can get away with using a w series trans, and if you are na-t on a vvti motor which has the skinniest rods of any JZ motor , you aren't really limiting yourself that much more cause most don't go over 500 without changing out the internals.
But if you have a non-vvti motorset, going above 400hp is all too common and easy, so the only thing that would be limiting you is the trans you choose, so in that case it makes sense to match the R154 which can handle 6-700 under the right conditions to your internally stronger non vvti motor which can handle 6-700 with a tt headgasket.
So it really depends on your power goals, a w series would get the job done to a certain point, but useless above that.
and a newer W series trans won't be stronger really, it would only be smoother from synchro design etc. if even that.
Last edited by Ali SC3; 03-06-13 at 01:33 PM.
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