2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

First of all this is just about as uninformed and unreaserched statment as you get. I don't know how you came to that conclusion or who told you that, but it's just an off-the-wall statement that I guarantee you has 0 evidence to prove it. NAMS in Japan, known for there RB26's, prefers, yes you read it right, prefers MAF sensor. Look up the "Godzilla" R34. Better yet, I'll do it for you since you seem to know how to do actual research so well:
http://www.turbomagazine.com/feature..._calipers.html

1000 whp+ through a MAF


Tell some of the best tuners in Japan that they're off their rockers. Tell it to the guys that built that GT monster, 10's of thousands of dollars and yet they seem to think it's not that big of a deal....hmmmm interesting? Get your freakin facts straight before you come at me with some attitude and your personal theories. To top this off, not only is the MAF a totally different unit in design and has nothing to do with what we were talking about in any way shape or form, but that part of the intake is in vaccuum, not boost. Despite what you might think, that does make a difference and completely alters are discussion of air flow taking into account it's location and function. We done here? Good lets move on.

When you say visually, did you mention the I/C core, or the fins? Don't think you did, you were admiring the polish and the welds. The welds are the least of the worries with the I/C as far as my concerns go. All of them are probably machine welded and are good quality, what's your point dude? We're looking at totally different stuff here.

These are taken directly from earl3 on SF. He was genrous enough to post these up for everyone.

I never said that they wouldn't "get you by" yes they will. But I highly doubt that you are actually pusing that I/C for more than a few seconds at a time. Just remember that it will work because you're hoping it gets your temps down enough to reduce knock and detonation for only a few seconds, and if you took it out and really beat on it, it would get progressively get worse every time you entered boost. That says something.

Jon

madmax98

[QUOTE=ZMEGOBY;4095815]I completely agree with you and that is why I stated in my first post about pressure drop. Anything with your turbo system is going to be based/surrounded by efficiency. If you are talking budget systems then the eBay system is the way to go. Just like going with an XS system over HKS. The efficiency in the turbos are going to greatly different and potentially the longevity. However the XS has opened the doors for a lot of people to put a turbo system on their car for a fraction of the cost. ( This is in no way a negative toward XS, I have not used their products and from what I have read there are numerous happy people)

However my suggestion would be if you are that concerned about efficiency and pressure drop you should go get a bell core that measures 3x24x12 and has a CFM of 1227. It will cost you ~$614.00 which actually is not bad money wise.(Data from their website) You will need to pick up end tanks and weld them though. Also you can choose the flow design which I would recommend the vertical flow design. This will allow you to pick your own size, make a better flowing system like 2jzlex is talking about and still at a fraction of the cost. Plus you can tell people you designed it and it is CUSTOM

Thanks for keeping us honest 2jzlex

[/QU
could u elaborate on the advantage of using the vertical flow design?

ICONYQ

iTrader: (3)

the vertical allows for more rows which you need to cool down the air. More rows = better heat exchange. Also it will decrease the presssure drop which will provide you a better response.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah Scoupe why don't you go over and check out the thread on SF that madmax started if you have the time to learn something new. Then maybe you can make up a couple more theories and we can see what we can do with them.

LexusFTW

iTrader: (7)

My .02 cents on the matter...Intercoolers are heat exchangers. Yes, some intercoolers are more efficient than others but you really need to take a step back and decide which intercooler is best for your application.

I'm running an XS Power 4" intercooler in my SC400. It took a lot of time and research for me to decide which intercooler I was going to purchase. Mind you, I previously ran a Greddy 3 row on my old setup so in no way do I skimp on aftermarket parts. In my research, I found a lot of information about different intercoolers being more efficient than others in areas of pressure drop and overall heat exchange. Here's what I came up with.

Pressure drop wasn't going to be a big issue for myself. I don't plan on running 30+ psi and my turbo will make up for any pressure drop across the intercooler anyway. I decided to go with the 4row knowing I would have significant pressure drop due to the massive volume of the intercooler itself. I also run 3" intercooler piping so that contributes to even more pressure differential.

As for efficiency in being a basic heat exchanger, the XS Power intercooler is by no means top dog. Comparing my old Greddy intercooler to the XS Power you can clearly see the differences in fin density, end tank volume, and flow characteristics of core. I have no hard data to back up my visual inspection but if you've seen it, then you know what I'm talking about.

So why did I choose the XS Power intercooler?? My SC400 is a 100% street car. Granted, I don't drive it everyday, but it's by no means a race car that sees the track every week nor do I go to sanctioned autocross events. The only time my car sees any kind of high boost (20 psi) is on the highway. The point is that the intercooler NEVER gets heatsoaked because I'm always traveling at a fast rate of speed and I always have ample time between boost for the intercooler to recover. For me, the XS Power intercooler was the perfect choice. It didn't cost an arm and a leg and it gets the job done to my satisfaction.

2jzlex

iTrader: (3)

Plus you are on water/meth so you don't have any reason to worry about intake temps. If everyone had that, anything over a 300$ I/C would become obsolete and discussions like these would probably not happen. ..........Bike Killer!!!.....

stevechumo

iTrader: (5)

I'm using an Ebay IC costed about $150 and I found it's very efficient. In summer, the heat from the IC only takes about 1/3 of the IC length, even when I boost my SC at 9 psi. The other 2/3 length of the IC is cool normally. No lag whatsoever. Another detail is the radiator coolant temperature reads 200-205 with a digital gauge so that means the engine is very hot.

I don't have a close up picture of my IC, but the weld quality is very good and has fish scale beads with tig weld. The core depth is 4" and that's what makes it efficient. The length and height of the IC aren't as important as the core depth.

sleeperSC

i spent 250 shipped for a mk4 supra fmic kit. it came with silicone couplers, clamps, pipes, core... and even the hoses and pipes to relocate the power steering fluid cooler.

it fit perfect on my sc300 with no cutting.

ebay ftw.

madmax98

well, i had my mind set on the cxracing one till i came across a good point that i can relate to. I'm prepping my car for road racing and i need the most efficient cooling system i can get my hands on. So now i'm increasing my budget for the intercooler to 600 plus piping. Eventually, i'll get enough motivation to integrate a water-to-air intercooler. i don't have any boost level to produce enough heat to justify that now. So now i gotta find something that fits my new budget < i really have money but it just hurts to throw a grand of hard earned money on something so simple!!!!>

madmax98

are all greddy intercoolers bar and plate design? i'm particularly interested in M/LS or V spec ones?

96sc

iTrader: (11)

Has anyone used the 31 x 12 x 3, core is
24 x 12x 3

buy it now is 76.00 shipped the place is in indiana, very cheap price, but for a daily driver, think it might be okay, anyone?


Universal intercooler 31 x 12 x 3, delta fin
APPLICATION
Universal, fits all cars and trucks
DESCRIPTION
3" OD
50% lighter than Bar and Plate, Delta fin design provides up to 20% better cooling effect than Bar and Plate
100% Aluminum, hand welded, Polished
tested to withstand more then 80psi pressure
150-35 degree temperature dorp
Pressure drop as low as 0.1 psi at 30 psi

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

I know that the economy has hit us all in the US, and in other parts of the world. I understand price is a concern, and each one of us has a different budget. That being said, there are most definitely many differences between different intercoolers and manufacturers. I am not going to repeat what has been so well written in previous posts on this thread, but the top name brands are definitely better than the cheap ones on ebay, and other sites. There is definitely a difference in the fin design, the alloys used to make the intercooler, the fatigue protection from high boost, the ability to transfer heat quickly and avoid heat soak, as well as keeping pressure drop to a minimum (which is also in part due to the proper sizing of your intercooler for your application). Bell make an excellent core, my first intercooler was a Bell core. My newest core is a 24"x12"x3.5" Garrett Core. It is designed to support up to 925 HP ( Garrett actually under rates their intercoolers). The Bar and plate design of this core, as well as the fin design are of superior quality. Their cores are not the cheapest, but they are worth the money if they fit your budget. I have attached a few close up pictures of my Garrett Core for you see the fin design. As mentioned in a previous post, you can see the fin density, vortice design and fin staggering is manufactured to provide quick heat exchange.


Pic 1


Pic 2


Pic 3


Ryan

madmax98

Ryan, thnx 4 your post. Do you think i can get away with the M-spec or i'm better off with just going with an ebay intercooler. Also, i'm looking for measurments to expand across the whole length of my front bumper openning. Many get a core of 24", but i measured my openning and it was around 31" inches. Now, is it possible to get a core that long and have the pipes turn right behind the fogs?

SC400TT

iTrader: (4)

I am not familiar with the M-spec or the ebay intercoolers other than some of the comments I have read and pics I have seen on this thread. Do not oversize your intercooler, bigger is not necessarily better. Match it to your set up and HP goals. Again, for my set up, I chose not to even consider anything less than excellent with my FMIC.

I am sure yo can get a 27x12x4 or larger, which should cover the 31" opening you are asking about once you install the end tanks. A goood fabricator can probably fit it and the piping in, but I am not sure, as I have not checked to see the max size you can fit in an SC. Again, the larger you go, the more pressure drop you tend to face, especially with lesser designed units.

Go with what best you can but that fits your budget, and if it is not the top for now, don't sweat it, design it so that you can change it out easilly and use the same tubing in the future when your budget improves, and if you find the existing FMIC is not meeting your needs effectively.

My .02 worth.

Ryan

ICONYQ

iTrader: (3)

guys if anyone wants to get into the mathematics of this I found a good site in my bookmarks that I had. It will also help with the questions of what size ect. You will have to do some research to find some of the variables but that is half the fun is it not

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html


BTW thanks Ryan for making my eyes go blur with all the fins