turbo vs swap
12-14-06, 11:58 PM
#17
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thanks for the info..Im looking to have 2 boost settings, one at 7psi,and one at 14 thats if i do the turbo kit. I was loking into the atristo motor and the boostlogic built tranny..is the I can get the aristo motor and tranny for 2300 plus installation..but would there be alot fo extras i would need to by separately to complete the swap
Second news flash: 7psi on a 2jzgte is less than the TT oem bov setting, on a single its all lag an no payoff.
Third news flash: Do a hell of alot more reading and searching so you know what you are getting yourself into, you have grossly underestimated what it takes to get to get reliable 500whp; you need a reality check. Spend some time on MKIV.com, read Supraforums,T04R.COM and get educated.
At 500 whp you are at the razor edge limit of your entire fuel system, you have exceeded oem cooling capacity, braking safety, run down the list. Again, learn more about what you are getting into. btw, you may find that the Aristo auto is fully capable of handling occasional blasts in the 500whp realm.
imho, the 1jz is a very under rated engine and a bargain, I would have gone that way but it is flat out illegal in CA. I would suggest that you read my signiture and know you'll eventually realize you need every upgrade listed (xcpt clutch).
Last edited by SCoupe; 12-15-06 at 12:03 AM.
12-15-06, 01:31 PM
#18
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I don't think people really understand how fast a car is with 300 whp.. A 3500 lb car with that much whp runs low 13's.. A 13 second daily driver is plenty fast in my opinion... That's just me though..
This is one hell of an expensive pissin match.. I'll bet a lot of people including myself didn't even know about a 1jz before they actually bought a SC400/300, and found out on forums or wherever.. I think everybody wants to ask the question, "how do I get 500 whp", but very few could cough up the cash, patience, and trial and error time to get it done. I'm just glad I found out that the 1JZ swap even exists, and secondly that it is so ridiculously cheap to do compared to a 2jz..
That said, a skyline is a monster with a 2.5 , and nobody really needs a monster as a daily driver, but I really think a lightly modded 1jz manual SC would get close to being just that without getting too crazy and squirrely..
I suggest to anyone that wants to just build a retarded fast car look elsewhere than anything in the 3700 lb category..
A thought that comes to mind would be an LS1/T56 swapped Gen 2 RX7... Well documented, 2600 lbs, 310 whp, supercar handling, mid 11's in the 1/4.. That's on a stock motor too. And I doubt you'll ever have enough mods to overpower the tranny and actually be able to keep the car in a straight line..
Just keep the SC250TT for those long trips, get a good car cover, and take the girl out in it.... Daily drive it, get some minor mods, 300 whp isn't too tough to do on a stock 1jz, and is easily budgeted.... For the money it would cost you to make a SC250TT that fast, you could've heavily modded your LS1 RX7 and it would be running 10's...... Not to mention you wouldn't have to worry about your sc or your rx being dependable...
It's just hard to beat a 2600 lb car with 400 hp..... 450 tq.... It's just tough to beat... With anything.. And they're cheap to build the whole car... All the parts you need including the motor/trans, car, custom built parts designed for teh swap, even wheels and tires, all for $6000 .....
That's what is keeping me from going nuts on mods on the SC for now.. They're almost as heavy as a truck...
This is one hell of an expensive pissin match.. I'll bet a lot of people including myself didn't even know about a 1jz before they actually bought a SC400/300, and found out on forums or wherever.. I think everybody wants to ask the question, "how do I get 500 whp", but very few could cough up the cash, patience, and trial and error time to get it done. I'm just glad I found out that the 1JZ swap even exists, and secondly that it is so ridiculously cheap to do compared to a 2jz..
That said, a skyline is a monster with a 2.5 , and nobody really needs a monster as a daily driver, but I really think a lightly modded 1jz manual SC would get close to being just that without getting too crazy and squirrely..
I suggest to anyone that wants to just build a retarded fast car look elsewhere than anything in the 3700 lb category..
A thought that comes to mind would be an LS1/T56 swapped Gen 2 RX7... Well documented, 2600 lbs, 310 whp, supercar handling, mid 11's in the 1/4.. That's on a stock motor too. And I doubt you'll ever have enough mods to overpower the tranny and actually be able to keep the car in a straight line..
Just keep the SC250TT for those long trips, get a good car cover, and take the girl out in it.... Daily drive it, get some minor mods, 300 whp isn't too tough to do on a stock 1jz, and is easily budgeted.... For the money it would cost you to make a SC250TT that fast, you could've heavily modded your LS1 RX7 and it would be running 10's...... Not to mention you wouldn't have to worry about your sc or your rx being dependable...
It's just hard to beat a 2600 lb car with 400 hp..... 450 tq.... It's just tough to beat... With anything.. And they're cheap to build the whole car... All the parts you need including the motor/trans, car, custom built parts designed for teh swap, even wheels and tires, all for $6000 .....
That's what is keeping me from going nuts on mods on the SC for now.. They're almost as heavy as a truck...
12-15-06, 04:19 PM
#20
3 years ago, I built a Supra for a buddy of mine...
2jz-gte obviously, auto trans
the motor was stock from throttle body to turbos...
we did the true twin conversion (both turbos always online), we did the boost logic trans and torque converter, HKS SSBOV, HKS AFR, FCD, and IC hard pipe kits
everything else was stock, stock motor, stock cams, stock cam gears, stock fuel system, stock side mount, stock turbos (not ported or anything), stock manifolds, stock throttle body (you see where I'm going with stock?)
Anyways, built the car, dyno'd it on pump gas, did some tweaking on the AFR, and eventually got 405 whp out of her...
She also went 11.99 at 119 full weight... Couple weeks later, 50 shot of nitrous put her at 460 whp, and 11.4 in the 1/4 (all 1/4 mile times were on street tires, Kumho MX's)
so, those motors have a lot more in them than you give credit... I also might add if you are only getting 410 whp out of yours, then you need to take it to a better tuner... a buddy of mine made 410 whp on a 2 liter DSM on the 61 on pump gas, 500 on c16...
12-15-06, 04:27 PM
#22
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I want to say im in the middle of the 2JZGTE swap. And its been a long long process. Ill be posting up my experience of the last couple of months. The thing should be running tommorow (if it dosent rain) or another half day or so of work.
12-17-06, 10:06 AM
#23
i say think about your tranny b4 the engine. no point in putting all this money into the car when the tranny will just go out on you. LSD..? having a 500whp car with no LSD isnt fun either.
12-26-06, 11:12 PM
#24
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3 years ago, I built a Supra for a buddy of mine...2jz-gte obviously, auto trans...stock from throttle body to turbos... we did the true twin conversion... we did the boost logic trans and torque converter, HKS SSBOV, HKS AFR, FCD, and IC hard pipe kits everything else was stock,dyno'd it on pump gas, did some tweaking on the AFR, and eventually got 405 whp out of her...She also went 11.99 at 119 full weight...
so, those motors have a lot more in them than you give credit... I also might add if you are only getting 410 whp out of yours, then you need to take it to a better tuner... a buddy of mine made 410 whp on a 2 liter DSM on the 61 on pump gas, 500 on c16...
so, those motors have a lot more in them than you give credit... I also might add if you are only getting 410 whp out of yours, then you need to take it to a better tuner... a buddy of mine made 410 whp on a 2 liter DSM on the 61 on pump gas, 500 on c16...
What am I supposed to say? I run a single on modest boost favoring a rich fuel ratio. Call me stupid. I certainly was not looking to get in a p*ssin contest about numbers or something, I'm way down on the list of high hp 2jz's and I'm well aware of it. You would know how quickly that could be changed.
Clearly our two engines were tuned with different objectives in mind. I did not want to push the T61 anywhere near as close to the limit that you took those twins to reach 405whp. btw, what psi where those TTC twins pushing?
Know that California 91 octane is uniquely poor gas to tune with, but that's what's here. Yeah, we saw brief whp numbers in the high 400's at 18psi but the afr was getting dangerously lean and the 2j balked. If I want 500+ whp SC, I only need to fill up with 100octane and tell the Blitz EBC to push ~20psi, 'course the w58 is toast soon there after. On c16, 26psi and fuel system upgrades probably 625 I would think.
This is my first foray into a 400+whp car. The numbers are all from a Dyopack dynometer (instead of the Dynojet dynometer that yields 5-8% higher numbers.) I am full on well aware that 410whp is no landmark for a T61 or the 2j, its a very modest and easily attained number that we hit in about 40 minutes.
Also, your comment about " more in them than you give credit" , no where do I think I've ever not given these magnificent motors anything but credit for being one of the most potent engines ever offered, so I'm not clear on where that came from.
I had to pull the SC300's oem 12 year old radiator to either a used 10+ year old TT supra rad or a new Koyo. Also, the ARP studs. We were in there anyway redoing the valve stem seals while the engine was on a stand, also had the Titan gears put in, probably worth doing at the time. These are not required upgrades but the Koyo and ARP's were for peace of mind.
Last edited by SCoupe; 12-26-06 at 11:44 PM.
12-27-06, 08:24 AM
#25
Props to you for building a very powerful TTC Supra BPU+++. It hauls *** and you may be better at tweaking oem twins to the max than my tuner is.
What am I supposed to say? I run a single on modest boost favoring a rich fuel ratio. Call me stupid. I certainly was not looking to get in a p*ssin contest about numbers or something, I'm way down on the list of high hp 2jz's and I'm well aware of it. You would know how quickly that could be changed.
Clearly our two engines were tuned with different objectives in mind. I did not want to push the T61 anywhere near as close to the limit that you took those twins to reach 405whp. btw, what psi where those TTC twins pushing?
Know that California 91 octane is uniquely poor gas to tune with, but that's what's here. Yeah, we saw brief whp numbers in the high 400's at 18psi but the afr was getting dangerously lean and the 2j balked. If I want 500+ whp SC, I only need to fill up with 100octane and tell the Blitz EBC to push ~20psi, 'course the w58 is toast soon there after. On c16, 26psi and fuel system upgrades probably 625 I would think.
This is my first foray into a 400+whp car. The numbers are all from a Dyopack dynometer (instead of the Dynojet dynometer that yields 5-8% higher numbers.) I am full on well aware that 410whp is no landmark for a T61 or the 2j, its a very modest and easily attained number that we hit in about 40 minutes.
Also, your comment about " more in them than you give credit" , no where do I think I've ever not given these magnificent motors anything but credit for being one of the most potent engines ever offered, so I'm not clear on where that came from.
What am I supposed to say? I run a single on modest boost favoring a rich fuel ratio. Call me stupid. I certainly was not looking to get in a p*ssin contest about numbers or something, I'm way down on the list of high hp 2jz's and I'm well aware of it. You would know how quickly that could be changed.
Clearly our two engines were tuned with different objectives in mind. I did not want to push the T61 anywhere near as close to the limit that you took those twins to reach 405whp. btw, what psi where those TTC twins pushing?
Know that California 91 octane is uniquely poor gas to tune with, but that's what's here. Yeah, we saw brief whp numbers in the high 400's at 18psi but the afr was getting dangerously lean and the 2j balked. If I want 500+ whp SC, I only need to fill up with 100octane and tell the Blitz EBC to push ~20psi, 'course the w58 is toast soon there after. On c16, 26psi and fuel system upgrades probably 625 I would think.
This is my first foray into a 400+whp car. The numbers are all from a Dyopack dynometer (instead of the Dynojet dynometer that yields 5-8% higher numbers.) I am full on well aware that 410whp is no landmark for a T61 or the 2j, its a very modest and easily attained number that we hit in about 40 minutes.
Also, your comment about " more in them than you give credit" , no where do I think I've ever not given these magnificent motors anything but credit for being one of the most potent engines ever offered, so I'm not clear on where that came from.
it clearly can be done with much less, however, there's nothing wrong with a little reliability mods...
when we tuned his, the stock twins were at 19 psi (and happy there too, we ran the car that way for a long long time), and on 93 octane fuel (in texas)
12-27-06, 08:42 AM
#27
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I think the way you stated "you must have all the mods listed in my sig for 400 whp" was what I was mainly going off of, and I now understand that we misunderstood one another...
it clearly can be done with much less, however, there's nothing wrong with a little reliability mods...
when we tuned his, the stock twins were at 19 psi (and happy there too, we ran the car that way for a long long time), and on 93 octane fuel (in texas)
it clearly can be done with much less, however, there's nothing wrong with a little reliability mods...
when we tuned his, the stock twins were at 19 psi (and happy there too, we ran the car that way for a long long time), and on 93 octane fuel (in texas)
btw, its easy to overlook this, but I was specifically replying to this thread's opening comment seeking 500whp:
Its not going to stay stock to make 500whp on an auto (that's like what...closer to 600 flywheel?)
Last edited by SCoupe; 01-05-07 at 08:51 PM.
01-04-07, 10:33 AM
#28
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Just like you, I have a 98'. I went with a 1jz soarer swap. Also yanked the auto and converted it to 5sp. (r154). For the time being I left the stock twins. 11psi on cold nights I've seen 13psi. My butt dyno say around 300rwhp. 500 rwhp is not a far stretch for the 1j. This is my 3rd 1j and with the right components you'll make 500. You'll make around 450rwhp safely with walbro, 550cc 2jz inj, FPR, single turbo (a good turbo, not a cheap POS), Throw in some HKS 264 cams and you'll be high 400's low 500's. Oh and this is with a SAFC II.
02-02-11, 04:14 PM
#29
Brought this back from the dead because of all the people who think they can get a 500WHP monster NA-T on the cheap.
^^^Good coments above by SCoupe Post #17^^^
What I want to see is how anyone can get to 600WHP on the cheap.
TO ANYONE READING THIS.
If your making 500-600 WHP What did it cost for you to get there?
I spent over $8000 on Turbo kit, fuel delivery, and HG & dive-train to support the power. Granted most of that was new prices except the trans.
Manifold
DP
Wastegate
BOV
Turbo
HG
FMIC
Misc Parts
Injectors
Walbro
Meth Kit
Clutch
Trans
AEM WB
Boost control
AFC
Did not add: TT LSD rear end, ECU, driveshaft, Axles, and some other c r a p im sure I forgot to mention.
And that's with cheap electronics! Im going stand alone now. The dam ECU is almost $1900
There are a bunch of posers on here who say they got big power cheap. Post up your costs and dyno sheets, lets see them. Unless your surrounded by an awesome supply of nice used parts and you do it all yourself if you want to make big power 500+ your going to pay big bucks. For most of you who are on a budget just do a 2JZ-GTE swap W/154 can call it a day. 2jzgte+r154 on SF for $4k right now.
^^^Good coments above by SCoupe Post #17^^^
What I want to see is how anyone can get to 600WHP on the cheap.
TO ANYONE READING THIS.
If your making 500-600 WHP What did it cost for you to get there?
I spent over $8000 on Turbo kit, fuel delivery, and HG & dive-train to support the power. Granted most of that was new prices except the trans.
Manifold
DP
Wastegate
BOV
Turbo
HG
FMIC
Misc Parts
Injectors
Walbro
Meth Kit
Clutch
Trans
AEM WB
Boost control
AFC
Did not add: TT LSD rear end, ECU, driveshaft, Axles, and some other c r a p im sure I forgot to mention.
And that's with cheap electronics! Im going stand alone now. The dam ECU is almost $1900
There are a bunch of posers on here who say they got big power cheap. Post up your costs and dyno sheets, lets see them. Unless your surrounded by an awesome supply of nice used parts and you do it all yourself if you want to make big power 500+ your going to pay big bucks. For most of you who are on a budget just do a 2JZ-GTE swap W/154 can call it a day. 2jzgte+r154 on SF for $4k right now.
Last edited by lfrers; 02-02-11 at 04:32 PM.
02-02-11, 04:26 PM
#30
Someone once sent me a picture of all the rods from the sc's from 92 to 00 and the later model rods 98-00 are paper thin compared to the original model;s.
Why that is I have no idea???