thelawnet

The current LS looks hopelessly outclassed by the S-Class.

The S500 has better performance than the LS600h, and uses the same amount of fuel. Mercedes' hybrid and diesel options are considerably more economical.

The tech is better - there's heating in the arm rests and door panels, a heads up display, splitview screen for allowing the front-seat passenger to watch movies while the driver gets nav, magic body control and other driving aids that surpass Lexus'.

I'm not sure it makes sense for Lexus to invest large amounts in building a luxury saloon when it's a market in decline, even for Mercedes.

daryll40

Yeah but the old LS looked like the old ES. Nothing new. And an Impala looks like a Malibu to the the average bypasser.

daryll40

There is a good point here. What's changed is that even "average" cars are great. I've been an LS driver since 1989. But I don't know if I'll buy another one. When they started, they were great cars and priced with good value. Now they are luxury cars and expensive. And to catch up to Mercedes they'll have to become even more expensive. I'm seriously thinking about getting an NX (the new small SUV) as my next car. I don't need, don't want and won't pay for uberluxury. But something like a $40,000 small Lexus quality SUV will be good enough. All of that being said, my current 2009 LS460AWD is indeed the very best car I've ever owned.

roadfrog

I'll take dated tech if it proves reliable. My previous BMW 7 series had leading edge tech......which was brutally unreliable (ie: the infamous, "i drive" system). MB and Audi had the same issues

I'm ecstatic that I have a reliable, proven and low depreciating vehicle.....even if it's a few years behind the ground breakers and pioneers of the automotive industry. Look at the Corolla.....dated-looking for years before they finally did a refresh last year. Yet sales were still brisk. Some people want that.

I would have GLADLY given up some of my high tech wizardry of my E65 if I could have kept it out of the shop and breaking my wallet.

BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR.

thelawnet

Yep.

The current Ford Focus has adaptive cruise, self-parking, active city stop (anti-collision), lane keep, driver alert, blind spot sensors, self-dimming main beam headlights, seat belt sensors front and back, tyre sensors, keyless go, and more.

And of course every car has heated seats, leather, and climate.

These are no longer luxury features, so the differential offered by a luxury car is much less. It should come down to a perfectly smooth ride, and the quality and comfort of the interior, but ride quality is apparently no longer a priority.

For me, my 2007 LS460 at less than the price of a new Focus is of course great value.... But I wonder what I'll be driving 7 years from now. It looks unlikely to be an LS.

Devh

I couldn't have said it better.
Build me a quality car for the money. Take your bag of gimmicks and tricks out of the equation and focus on the car. This car is the last refuge from being a sucker.

It's shameful that an economy car that is significantly less is more reliable. The LS series of cars has traditionally been the most reliable of the Toyota brand and they need to keep with that philosophy, and when they mess up they need to bow their heads in shame like they did with the Sony PlayStation scandal.

They say the new Mercedes is better built and reliable which is a load of crap. They say this about ever new Mercedes and Audi every year and like clock work they fail soon as they are off lease.
If Lexus wants to up their game then they need to make an all aluminum body and a five liter engine. call it an LS 500.

roadfrog

Ooooohhhhh!!!! NOW we're talking! Or put the 5.7 liter supercharged Tundra engine in a Performance (F Sport?) model.

Devh

I say leave out the "Sport" moniker and the extra badging. Make an entry level car with the 5.0 liter and a Brougham stretched edition with the 5.7 for light limo service kind of like the Maybach.
Even the VIP boys will be on board with this. Throw in some Zen while they're at it keeping in line with their cultural heritage.
Then they should give the car modernized retro look incorporating the prestigious looks of executive saloons that came before it.
Let Toyota outsource the designer to a well known Italian design house and start retooling new methods to be the industry leader in car manufacturing by getting those fender gaps a little tighter. Tell Mark Levinson to take a hike and get the guys from Yamaha to build a new sound system using acoustical sound cancelation of road noise. And last but not least, throw out the spindle grill.

Toyota can do this because they have the resources and most of all it's where all of their efforts should be as a sign of respect to Eiji Toyoda's vision.

SW17LS

So is everything though. The new S Class is really a level above, and it costs more too. Remember an S550 STARTS at $93k...that's a really loaded LS460L. I don't know that I would really consider them competitors anymore.

While I agree that tech has gotten much better on lower end cars. A luxury car like the LS is not just about tech. Tech alone doesn't make a premium car. When you driveway a loaded Fusion...it's nothing like an LS, or a GS, or an S Class, or a 5 Series. That quality difference is immediately apparent.

thelawnet

Here in the UK the s class starts with the s350 diesel at £57k. The LWB is 4.4k more. Not as fast as the ls460, but still 0-60 in under 7s.

The ls460 is £64k and the ls600h LWB is £89k. Of course you need to spend a lot on options with the mercedes, whereas the 600h is fully loaded with only night view assist as an option (the ls460 is not so well equipped though), but the ls is definitely not cheaper here if having a v8 gas guzzling engine is not important to you.

SW17LS

Here though the S is much more expensive. Like I said, S550 starts at $93k, the LS starts at $72k. So the S starts $20k more.