Ls430 vs ls460
#106
Not much...maybe two cents.
That's ridiculous. Good example....I just DIY'd a replacement of my rad (which I accidentally broke by leaning on the reservoir tank nipple) and a water pump which was weeping a very small amount of fluid. While I was there I replaced the serpentine belt and air filters. Took me about four hours to do and cost me about 220 bucks all in including Toyota Super Long Life Coolant:
109 dollars for the rad with lifetime warranty
55 dollars for the water pump
30 dollars for the coolant
13 dollars for the serpentine belt (Bando OEM)
7 dollars each for the air filters
A frickin' Honda Civic would cost more to do!
At the end of the day, these are basically Toyota parts and can hardly be called, "exotic" or "rare". Same with Service....DIY is simple or take it to Toyota. Can you say the same for a BMW, Audi Or Merc??
That's ridiculous. Good example....I just DIY'd a replacement of my rad (which I accidentally broke by leaning on the reservoir tank nipple) and a water pump which was weeping a very small amount of fluid. While I was there I replaced the serpentine belt and air filters. Took me about four hours to do and cost me about 220 bucks all in including Toyota Super Long Life Coolant:
109 dollars for the rad with lifetime warranty
55 dollars for the water pump
30 dollars for the coolant
13 dollars for the serpentine belt (Bando OEM)
7 dollars each for the air filters
A frickin' Honda Civic would cost more to do!
At the end of the day, these are basically Toyota parts and can hardly be called, "exotic" or "rare". Same with Service....DIY is simple or take it to Toyota. Can you say the same for a BMW, Audi Or Merc??
#107
Lexus Fanatic
I can take it a step further and say that those people who claim they got their monies worth from their warranty don't realized they over paid the dealer for the work to give them the illusion
I've had friends who ask why I'm so cheap if I can afford such a nice car. I counter that I can afford a nice car BECAUSE I'm cheap. I prefer "smart shopper".
#108
EXACTLY! I've been around the block a million times with members here and other forums with this argument, but they just don't get it....or choose to just have their OWN version of inner peace. For me, finding parts at a quarter the price of a dealer and doing the work myself (or an independent mechanic to do the labour at half that of Toy/Lex), is MY peace of mind. I'm a cheap B*stard!
I've had friends who ask why I'm so cheap if I can afford such a nice car. I counter that I can afford a nice car BECAUSE I'm cheap. I prefer "smart shopper".
I've had friends who ask why I'm so cheap if I can afford such a nice car. I counter that I can afford a nice car BECAUSE I'm cheap. I prefer "smart shopper".
#109
EXACTLY! I've been around the block a million times with members here and other forums with this argument, but they just don't get it....or choose to just have their OWN version of inner peace. For me, finding parts at a quarter the price of a dealer and doing the work myself (or an independent mechanic to do the labour at half that of Toy/Lex), is MY peace of mind. I'm a cheap B*stard!
I've had friends who ask why I'm so cheap if I can afford such a nice car. I counter that I can afford a nice car BECAUSE I'm cheap. I prefer "smart shopper".
I've had friends who ask why I'm so cheap if I can afford such a nice car. I counter that I can afford a nice car BECAUSE I'm cheap. I prefer "smart shopper".
They really know how to make fools of so called educated people.
It's not about being cheap, its about being taken for a ride by being intimidated.
People in general do not want to appear poor or not informed on the trends. There is nothing more illusionary then fake opulence. This is the Starbucks hook, and if you look behind the counter you will find nothing more then super automatic espresso machines, not a real barista.
#110
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
When I purchased my 430 I considered the 460 but I was seriously worried about owning one without a warranty after reading about the issues. The 430 is a better vehicle overall. More comfortable, more quiet, and more reliable. One thing that really speaks to this is that when you go into a Lexus dealer and look at the cars Lexus mechanics choose - ls400s and 430s are their favorites. No offense guys but I'll trust the word of the guys servicing these cars everyday. The 430 definitely was assembled with more refinement and it's reliability has already proven itself to be better then the 460. No question about that. I like the 460 but it has proven to be a less reliable car then the 430 and it's not the technology inside the car that gives the 460 problems. It's mostly between major mechanical and the suspension. Often very expensive to fix.
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 09-08-14 at 05:04 PM.
#111
When I purchased my 430 I considered the 460 but I was seriously worried about owning one without a warranty after reading about the issues. The 430 is a better vehicle overall. More comfortable, more quiet, and more reliable. One thing that really speaks to this is that when you go into a Lexus dealer and look at the cars Lexus mechanics choose - ls400s and 430s are their favorites. No offense guys but I'll trust the word of the guys servicing these cars everyday. The 430 definitely was assembled with more refinement and it's reliability has already proven itself to be better then the 460. No question about that. I like the 460 but it has proven to be a less reliable car then the 430 and it's not the technology inside the car that gives the 460 problems. It's mostly between major mechanical and the suspension. Often very expensive to fix.
#112
Lexus Fanatic
You have to remember that while there may be more issues with the LS460 vs the LS430, its still rated as one of if not the most reliable cars produced. So its not like one is buying into a nest of issues with the 460, if that were the case we would see that reflected in reliability data and we don't.
My mechanic says he would buy a 430 over a 460 only because of the cost of replacing the lower control arms on the 460...other than that its as good a car. The 430 was a great car, but its just ancient at this point IMHO. Nothing lasts forever.
My mechanic says he would buy a 430 over a 460 only because of the cost of replacing the lower control arms on the 460...other than that its as good a car. The 430 was a great car, but its just ancient at this point IMHO. Nothing lasts forever.
#113
You have to remember that while there may be more issues with the LS460 vs the LS430, its still rated as one of if not the most reliable cars produced. So its not like one is buying into a nest of issues with the 460, if that were the case we would see that reflected in reliability data and we don't.
My mechanic says he would buy a 430 over a 460 only because of the cost of replacing the lower control arms on the 460...other than that its as good a car. The 430 was a great car, but its just ancient at this point IMHO. Nothing lasts forever.
My mechanic says he would buy a 430 over a 460 only because of the cost of replacing the lower control arms on the 460...other than that its as good a car. The 430 was a great car, but its just ancient at this point IMHO. Nothing lasts forever.
#114
Lexus Fanatic
look at the cars Lexus mechanics choose - ls400s and 430s are their favorites.
When you say, "better vehicle overall"....what do you mean? It's certainly not better in many ways - technology, sound system, handling, looks (extremely dated), performance, etc. If you mean more reliable, I'll have to take your word on that. From what I've seen so far, reliability is not an issue on the 460. CR and every other publication agrees. I mean, a Corolla might be MORE reliable than a Camry but they're both reliable and the Camry is that much more a car than the Corolla. Plus it looks nicer...as does the 460 over the 400/430 which I truly think looks dated and boxy (ie ugly).
Also, what "major mechanical" issues are you referring too? If all you can refer to is suspension, big deal! Couple hundred to fix with some bushings off Ebay. and a couple hours for a mechanic to do. If owners choose to get soaked at the dealer and have them REPLACE entire suspension assemblies, that's their choosing. I will not go that route. I had my dealer inspect my suspension and the mechanic said everything was solid as new on my 80k mile LS. Transmission issues? Nope. Electronics issues? Meh....a few members had to have their Nav/Stereo fixed at United Radio for 600 dollars or so, but it's a rarity. Engine issues? Nope. Diffs? Uh... no. Steering or brakes? Again, no.
On edit: Just for *****s and giggles, I quickly went over to the 430 forums. Literally the first 6 or 7 threads were about mechanical issues - boiling over, electric seats no longer working, keyless entry stopped working, engine codes, squeaking and overheating, another that simply stated "multiple problems", navigation problems, timing belt, etc.
Last edited by roadfrog; 09-09-14 at 06:07 AM.
#115
Moderator
People need to relax and enjoy they car and not think every issue reported on this forum is going to happen to them b/c it's not. A lot issues are from one time posters who never come back with a follow up, hanging out here you may think every 460 owner has the same problems which is not the case, we are a small percentage of LS460/600H owners that hang out here on the regular. Yes there are common issues like every car but to say the 460 is so scary to own and not reliable is not true. Another thing when people post issue remember we might not be getting the entire pic far as the history of the car, prior to them owning it. It could be a flood car, been in a wreck etc, it was a great price (for a reason) and someone did not do their homework before buying b/c hey it’s a Lexus what could go wrong?! I have owned two 460's and neither has left me stranded from a mechanical stand point mind you the SWB had over 149K and she ran like new just like the previous 430 did. I love the 430 & 460 a lot IMO the 460 is the better car, some may feel different if they could spend more time with the 460 than a test drive just maybe. If some of you think the 460 is a problem child go hang out on the MB, Audi and Bimmer forums and compare apples to apples (2007-2009) for reference. See what those flagship issues are then tell me if you think the 460 is such a bad car to own.
#116
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
You know what's interesting, I wonder how sales numbers plays into this argument. Look at the tremendous drop-off in sales after 2008. I totally agree that the 460 is a great car. Just not better then the 430. This discussion really gets some of you going...
US Sales figures:
2001 -31,110
2002 - 26,261
2003 - 23,895
2004 - 32,272
2005 - 26,043
2006 - 19,546
= 159,127 LS430's sold in the US
2007 - 35,226
2008 - 20,255
2009 - 11,334
2010 - 12,275
2011 - 9,568
2012 - 8,345
= 97,003 LS460's sold in the US
US Sales figures:
2001 -31,110
2002 - 26,261
2003 - 23,895
2004 - 32,272
2005 - 26,043
2006 - 19,546
= 159,127 LS430's sold in the US
2007 - 35,226
2008 - 20,255
2009 - 11,334
2010 - 12,275
2011 - 9,568
2012 - 8,345
= 97,003 LS460's sold in the US
Last edited by Lavrishevo; 09-09-14 at 07:51 AM.
#117
Lexus Fanatic
Yep and your sagging American economy played a huge part in this equation. Luxury sales dropped uniformly across the manufacturers during the recession. People were losing their homes and the last thing anyone was thinking about was buying a luxury sedan.
#118
Moderator
You know what's interesting, I wonder how sales numbers plays into this argument. Look at the tremendous drop-off in sales after 2008. I totally agree that the 460 is a great car. Just not better then the 430..
US Sales figures:
2001 -31,110
2002 - 26,261
2003 - 23,895
2004 - 32,272
2005 - 26,043
2006- 19,546
= 159,127 LS430's sold in the US
2007 - 35,226
2008 - 20,255
2009 - 11,334
2010 - 12,275
2011 - 9,568
2012 - 8,345
= 97,003 LS460's sold in the US
US Sales figures:
2001 -31,110
2002 - 26,261
2003 - 23,895
2004 - 32,272
2005 - 26,043
2006- 19,546
= 159,127 LS430's sold in the US
2007 - 35,226
2008 - 20,255
2009 - 11,334
2010 - 12,275
2011 - 9,568
2012 - 8,345
= 97,003 LS460's sold in the US
#120
Lexus Fanatic