Fricken Dealers (*RANT*)
11-13-06, 03:50 PM
#31
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Lexus of Watertown did the same thing to me on an LS430. I ordered the car, and they sat on my deposit for five months. They then had the temerity to claim that they had no record of the order. When I looked at the order form, I noticed that no one from the dealership had signed the document, thus making it an invalid contract. It took me three weeks to get my money back.
There are two kinds of salesmen. Good ones will sell you something that will solve your problem. It might not be the best solution for your problem, but it WILL solve your problem. For example, the best car for your particular situation might be a Mercedes S550. The local Lexus salesman can't sell S550s, so he'll try to convince you to buy an LS460. It's not exactly what you should buy, but it's close.
A sleazy salesman will sell you anything just to make the sale. He'd sell you a Yugo when you really needed the S550.
Regardless of whether your salesman is good or bad, he's still a salesman. He's not your friend, your confidant, or your equal. He makes money by selling you a car filled with options and add-ons at the highest price possible. He DOES NOT have your best interests at heart. In fact, his interests are diametrically opposed to yours. If you go in treating him like your bud, you're going to come out with the feeling that someone has been exploring around in your lower colon with a large, steel object.
If LS460s are in high demand, the sales managers aren't going to discount them. In fact, they're going to do everything possible to milk as much additional profit out of each unit. If you don't like the deal, there's 200 more behind you who'll gladly cough up the cash . If the economy is slow, and the inventory isn't moving, he's going to deal. If he's close to making a bonus, he'll give you the car at cost in order to make the bonus. It all depends on the situation. Wouldn't you skip the profit on a car if that particular sale will bring in $10,000 to the dealership?
There may be honest salesmen out there, but most will lie, steal, cheat, misrepresent and manipulate reality in order to coerce you into a sale. Don't believe ANYTHING a car dealer tells you unless it's written as a part of a legal contract. Believe NOTHING. Assume that the salesman is lying if his lips are moving. If you need questions answered, research the Internet, or call Lexus corporate.
Finally, you must remember that you earned the money that you're spending on a car. Not the dealer. If you don't like anything about the sales process, walk out the door. The car will always be there, and there are dozens of salesmen and dealers who would love your business.
Chris
There are two kinds of salesmen. Good ones will sell you something that will solve your problem. It might not be the best solution for your problem, but it WILL solve your problem. For example, the best car for your particular situation might be a Mercedes S550. The local Lexus salesman can't sell S550s, so he'll try to convince you to buy an LS460. It's not exactly what you should buy, but it's close.
A sleazy salesman will sell you anything just to make the sale. He'd sell you a Yugo when you really needed the S550.
Regardless of whether your salesman is good or bad, he's still a salesman. He's not your friend, your confidant, or your equal. He makes money by selling you a car filled with options and add-ons at the highest price possible. He DOES NOT have your best interests at heart. In fact, his interests are diametrically opposed to yours. If you go in treating him like your bud, you're going to come out with the feeling that someone has been exploring around in your lower colon with a large, steel object.
If LS460s are in high demand, the sales managers aren't going to discount them. In fact, they're going to do everything possible to milk as much additional profit out of each unit. If you don't like the deal, there's 200 more behind you who'll gladly cough up the cash . If the economy is slow, and the inventory isn't moving, he's going to deal. If he's close to making a bonus, he'll give you the car at cost in order to make the bonus. It all depends on the situation. Wouldn't you skip the profit on a car if that particular sale will bring in $10,000 to the dealership?
There may be honest salesmen out there, but most will lie, steal, cheat, misrepresent and manipulate reality in order to coerce you into a sale. Don't believe ANYTHING a car dealer tells you unless it's written as a part of a legal contract. Believe NOTHING. Assume that the salesman is lying if his lips are moving. If you need questions answered, research the Internet, or call Lexus corporate.
Finally, you must remember that you earned the money that you're spending on a car. Not the dealer. If you don't like anything about the sales process, walk out the door. The car will always be there, and there are dozens of salesmen and dealers who would love your business.
Chris
11-13-06, 04:09 PM
#32
Lexus of Watertown did the same thing to me on an LS430. I ordered the car, and they sat on my deposit for five months. They then had the temerity to claim that they had no record of the order. When I looked at the order form, I noticed that no one from the dealership had signed the document, thus making it an invalid contract. It took me three weeks to get my money back.
There are two kinds of salesmen. Good ones will sell you something that will solve your problem. It might not be the best solution for your problem, but it WILL solve your problem. For example, the best car for your particular situation might be a Mercedes S550. The local Lexus salesman can't sell S550s, so he'll try to convince you to buy an LS460. It's not exactly what you should buy, but it's close.
A sleazy salesman will sell you anything just to make the sale. He'd sell you a Yugo when you really needed the S550.
Regardless of whether your salesman is good or bad, he's still a salesman. He's not your friend, your confidant, or your equal. He makes money by selling you a car filled with options and add-ons at the highest price possible. He DOES NOT have your best interests at heart. In fact, his interests are diametrically opposed to yours. If you go in treating him like your bud, you're going to come out with the feeling that someone has been exploring around in your lower colon with a large, steel object.
If LS460s are in high demand, the sales managers aren't going to discount them. In fact, they're going to do everything possible to milk as much additional profit out of each unit. If you don't like the deal, there's 200 more behind you who'll gladly cough up the cash . If the economy is slow, and the inventory isn't moving, he's going to deal. If he's close to making a bonus, he'll give you the car at cost in order to make the bonus. It all depends on the situation. Wouldn't you skip the profit on a car if that particular sale will bring in $10,000 to the dealership?
There may be honest salesmen out there, but most will lie, steal, cheat, misrepresent and manipulate reality in order to coerce you into a sale. Don't believe ANYTHING a car dealer tells you unless it's written as a part of a legal contract. Believe NOTHING. Assume that the salesman is lying if his lips are moving. If you need questions answered, research the Internet, or call Lexus corporate.
Finally, you must remember that you earned the money that you're spending on a car. Not the dealer. If you don't like anything about the sales process, walk out the door. The car will always be there, and there are dozens of salesmen and dealers who would love your business.
Chris
There are two kinds of salesmen. Good ones will sell you something that will solve your problem. It might not be the best solution for your problem, but it WILL solve your problem. For example, the best car for your particular situation might be a Mercedes S550. The local Lexus salesman can't sell S550s, so he'll try to convince you to buy an LS460. It's not exactly what you should buy, but it's close.
A sleazy salesman will sell you anything just to make the sale. He'd sell you a Yugo when you really needed the S550.
Regardless of whether your salesman is good or bad, he's still a salesman. He's not your friend, your confidant, or your equal. He makes money by selling you a car filled with options and add-ons at the highest price possible. He DOES NOT have your best interests at heart. In fact, his interests are diametrically opposed to yours. If you go in treating him like your bud, you're going to come out with the feeling that someone has been exploring around in your lower colon with a large, steel object.
If LS460s are in high demand, the sales managers aren't going to discount them. In fact, they're going to do everything possible to milk as much additional profit out of each unit. If you don't like the deal, there's 200 more behind you who'll gladly cough up the cash . If the economy is slow, and the inventory isn't moving, he's going to deal. If he's close to making a bonus, he'll give you the car at cost in order to make the bonus. It all depends on the situation. Wouldn't you skip the profit on a car if that particular sale will bring in $10,000 to the dealership?
There may be honest salesmen out there, but most will lie, steal, cheat, misrepresent and manipulate reality in order to coerce you into a sale. Don't believe ANYTHING a car dealer tells you unless it's written as a part of a legal contract. Believe NOTHING. Assume that the salesman is lying if his lips are moving. If you need questions answered, research the Internet, or call Lexus corporate.
Finally, you must remember that you earned the money that you're spending on a car. Not the dealer. If you don't like anything about the sales process, walk out the door. The car will always be there, and there are dozens of salesmen and dealers who would love your business.
Chris
Chris, thanks for sharing your experience; I hope everything goes well for you. I just wish I can have the luxury of choosing another Lexus dealer here in Calgary.
Cheers,
Felix
11-13-06, 05:04 PM
#33
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11-14-06, 01:34 PM
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Those of you who complain so bitterly about how you are treated when buying a car are causing many of the problems yourself. Granted, there are some bad salespeople and dealerships out there but when you walk in looking for problems and tossing around a ****-y attitude it should be no surprise you find what you're looking for.
** Warning! Longwinded rant follows. **
Face it, as consumers we overpay for almost everything we purchase – do you really have any idea what Best*** pays for that big screen on which you just dropped several grand? No, you don’t – you may think you do but unless you’re a consumer electronics analyst or a buyer in the industry you have no clue. What about department stores? Do you have any clue what the markup is in clothing? How about grocery stores? The profit you “allow” a dealership to make is nothing compared to the percentage profit you unwittingly pay nearly everywhere else! Is the picture getting clearer?
Ever hear of capitalism? Buy low, sell high? Why is making a profit – as large a profit as possible – suddenly a bad thing? Each of you have a job (I assume the independently wealthy aren’t part of this discussion) that depends on your employer making as much profit as the market will permit. I don’t hear any of you complaining that you make too much…
To the best of my knowledge, the retail automotive industry is the most cost transparent of any most of use are likely to encounter. As you know, you can easily look up vehicle invoice, holdback amounts, incentives, rebates and will a little effort, interest rates. What other purchase can you make – homes, boats, campers, TV’s, groceries, clothing, pools, etc. – where you know what the seller paid for his merchandise? None, probably. Guess what, smarty pants? You are taking out all out all of your pent-up consumer aggression on that poor car salesperson working for straight commission.
Lexus produces the finest automobiles available and most Lexus dealers are very concerned with providing excellent customer service and cultivating repeat buyers. If you’re unhappy with your dealer first look at your own attitude and behavior and be sure you are being a good customer before assuming they are a bad dealership. If the two of you really can’t make it work then get a divorce and find a new dealer – just don’t take your bad habits with you.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming….
** Warning! Longwinded rant follows. **
Face it, as consumers we overpay for almost everything we purchase – do you really have any idea what Best*** pays for that big screen on which you just dropped several grand? No, you don’t – you may think you do but unless you’re a consumer electronics analyst or a buyer in the industry you have no clue. What about department stores? Do you have any clue what the markup is in clothing? How about grocery stores? The profit you “allow” a dealership to make is nothing compared to the percentage profit you unwittingly pay nearly everywhere else! Is the picture getting clearer?
Ever hear of capitalism? Buy low, sell high? Why is making a profit – as large a profit as possible – suddenly a bad thing? Each of you have a job (I assume the independently wealthy aren’t part of this discussion) that depends on your employer making as much profit as the market will permit. I don’t hear any of you complaining that you make too much…
To the best of my knowledge, the retail automotive industry is the most cost transparent of any most of use are likely to encounter. As you know, you can easily look up vehicle invoice, holdback amounts, incentives, rebates and will a little effort, interest rates. What other purchase can you make – homes, boats, campers, TV’s, groceries, clothing, pools, etc. – where you know what the seller paid for his merchandise? None, probably. Guess what, smarty pants? You are taking out all out all of your pent-up consumer aggression on that poor car salesperson working for straight commission.
Lexus produces the finest automobiles available and most Lexus dealers are very concerned with providing excellent customer service and cultivating repeat buyers. If you’re unhappy with your dealer first look at your own attitude and behavior and be sure you are being a good customer before assuming they are a bad dealership. If the two of you really can’t make it work then get a divorce and find a new dealer – just don’t take your bad habits with you.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming….
11-14-06, 09:04 PM
#36
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Sorry to read about your dealership problems. I was extremely lucky...just took delivery of my LS460L last night after waiting only 1 1/2 weeks for a car. My salesperson actually sold me the GM's demo without him knowing.
11-15-06, 04:02 AM
#37
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Those of you who complain so bitterly about how you are treated when buying a car are causing many of the problems yourself. Granted, there are some bad salespeople and dealerships out there but when you walk in looking for problems and tossing around a ****-y attitude it should be no surprise you find what you're looking for.
** Warning! Longwinded rant follows. **
Face it, as consumers we overpay for almost everything we purchase – do you really have any idea what Best*** pays for that big screen on which you just dropped several grand? No, you don’t – you may think you do but unless you’re a consumer electronics analyst or a buyer in the industry you have no clue. What about department stores? Do you have any clue what the markup is in clothing? How about grocery stores? The profit you “allow” a dealership to make is nothing compared to the percentage profit you unwittingly pay nearly everywhere else! Is the picture getting clearer?
Ever hear of capitalism? Buy low, sell high? Why is making a profit – as large a profit as possible – suddenly a bad thing? Each of you have a job (I assume the independently wealthy aren’t part of this discussion) that depends on your employer making as much profit as the market will permit. I don’t hear any of you complaining that you make too much…
To the best of my knowledge, the retail automotive industry is the most cost transparent of any most of use are likely to encounter. As you know, you can easily look up vehicle invoice, holdback amounts, incentives, rebates and will a little effort, interest rates. What other purchase can you make – homes, boats, campers, TV’s, groceries, clothing, pools, etc. – where you know what the seller paid for his merchandise? None, probably. Guess what, smarty pants? You are taking out all out all of your pent-up consumer aggression on that poor car salesperson working for straight commission.
Lexus produces the finest automobiles available and most Lexus dealers are very concerned with providing excellent customer service and cultivating repeat buyers. If you’re unhappy with your dealer first look at your own attitude and behavior and be sure you are being a good customer before assuming they are a bad dealership. If the two of you really can’t make it work then get a divorce and find a new dealer – just don’t take your bad habits with you.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming….
** Warning! Longwinded rant follows. **
Face it, as consumers we overpay for almost everything we purchase – do you really have any idea what Best*** pays for that big screen on which you just dropped several grand? No, you don’t – you may think you do but unless you’re a consumer electronics analyst or a buyer in the industry you have no clue. What about department stores? Do you have any clue what the markup is in clothing? How about grocery stores? The profit you “allow” a dealership to make is nothing compared to the percentage profit you unwittingly pay nearly everywhere else! Is the picture getting clearer?
Ever hear of capitalism? Buy low, sell high? Why is making a profit – as large a profit as possible – suddenly a bad thing? Each of you have a job (I assume the independently wealthy aren’t part of this discussion) that depends on your employer making as much profit as the market will permit. I don’t hear any of you complaining that you make too much…
To the best of my knowledge, the retail automotive industry is the most cost transparent of any most of use are likely to encounter. As you know, you can easily look up vehicle invoice, holdback amounts, incentives, rebates and will a little effort, interest rates. What other purchase can you make – homes, boats, campers, TV’s, groceries, clothing, pools, etc. – where you know what the seller paid for his merchandise? None, probably. Guess what, smarty pants? You are taking out all out all of your pent-up consumer aggression on that poor car salesperson working for straight commission.
Lexus produces the finest automobiles available and most Lexus dealers are very concerned with providing excellent customer service and cultivating repeat buyers. If you’re unhappy with your dealer first look at your own attitude and behavior and be sure you are being a good customer before assuming they are a bad dealership. If the two of you really can’t make it work then get a divorce and find a new dealer – just don’t take your bad habits with you.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled programming….
You've made some valid arguments, but you're missing the point.
Let me ask you this: If you had to enter a cage of rattlesnakes, would you
walk through the area with bare feet and shorts? I wouldn't. I'd wear heavy leather boots, chain saw chaps, and layers of kevlar. I'd carry a stick, and maybe even a large shovel to push them aside as I'm negotiating the area. So why would I enter a car dealership treating the people there as trusted friends? Sure, some car salesmen are scrupulously honest, and completely ethical, but you have to admit that this is a rare situation. Most salesmen are taught how to manipulate the buying process to milk profit from the customer so that the customer is completely unaware of the manipulation.
I do computer consulting. I charge a lot for my consulting services, but I don't play games with my pricing. I don't lie to my customers. I don't manipulate their emotions. I don't engage in bait and switch tactics. I don't kiss my customer's derrieres while secretly plotting to rip them off behind their backs.
If the vendors with whom I deal are honest, ethical, up-front and considerate of my needs, I treat them similarly. I have such a relationship with my mechanic, my fish guy, my butcher, my carpenter, my vet and my oil delivery company. When I'm dealing with a dishonest individual, I'm not going to put my money and my trust into his hands. Profit is not the problem. Making profit while acting like a sleazeball IS the problem.
Why did one Lexus dealership swear that a color combination was available "if I ordered today" when corporate indicated that it wasn't? Why did the same Lexus dealership swear that another color combination was extremely rare when corporate Lexus provided me with ship data that told me that 30 cars existed on the east coast in this color scheme?
When car dealers stop acting like common thieves and liars, I'll treat them with respect. Until that time, I'm keeping a close watch on my wallet. I always find it funny that car salesmen complain about customer attitudes when the behavior of their industry has fostered such an attitude.
BTW. The price of EVERYTHING is negotiable. Anyone who pays retail for anything isn’t' doing their homework. Markup information is out there for anyone who cares to do a bit of research, and pricing is directly tied to how badly someone wants to sell something. This is not being a smarty-pants. It's being an educated consumer.
11-15-06, 04:37 AM
#38
Oh no, I was just using the Civic as an example, so I can use smaller numbers, lol. The figures were all made up, I'm not saying that if you go and buy a Civic, that's what's going to happen. It was just an example.
And I've gotten pretty good deals on cars, and even had one saleperson say to me...Ok, so I guess you can't be bull****ted to...and laughed and asked me the sammmmmme olllld tired question...........
"WHAT DO I GOTTA DO, TO PUT YA IN THIS CAR....TOOODAY!!"
And don't tell me they don't teach you to say that.
And I've gotten pretty good deals on cars, and even had one saleperson say to me...Ok, so I guess you can't be bull****ted to...and laughed and asked me the sammmmmme olllld tired question...........
"WHAT DO I GOTTA DO, TO PUT YA IN THIS CAR....TOOODAY!!"
And don't tell me they don't teach you to say that.
Thank you.
11-15-06, 06:10 AM
#39
I'm pretty certain that you would not get treated that way at Lexus of Jacksonville. Let me know if you want to talk to my sales guy (if you'd be willing to buy in Jax). This dealership seems to be one of those that earns the reputation for Lexus.
EDIT: Read the rest of the thread -- sounds like jjbodean can help you out too.
EDIT: Read the rest of the thread -- sounds like jjbodean can help you out too.
Check this out .. I get Voice Mail that my car 460L(Obsidian / Cashmere) is here and I'm up to #1 on the list (due to color combo, features, etc). By the time I have called the dealer back (1 hour), the car has been sold to someone else. No good excuse givem, just that they offered it to multiple people, and because I had a trade they werent sure if I would take it ??!! I told them I've been on the list for over a year .. What's up with that ??
I saved the VMS .. should I make an issue out of this ? If so, with whom ??
I saved the VMS .. should I make an issue out of this ? If so, with whom ??
Last edited by I6turbo; 11-15-06 at 06:14 AM.
11-15-06, 07:25 AM
#40
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In response to massshelti:
You make a valid point as well. I wasn't trying to imply that one shouldn't be prepared with good information before a car purchase anymore than I would advocate a home purchase without doing your homework. The point I was attempting to make was that many car buyers approach the process with a great deal of built up resentment, anger and assume they will be ripped off.
I never like to hear about high pressure tactics such as the ones you describe - especially from a Lexus dealer. Not all dealers and salespeople are like that so find a location that is ethical and treats you with respect.
"I always find it funny that car salesmen complain about customer attitudes when the behavior of their industry has fostered such an attitude."
I will admit that many years ago the retail auto industry began acting in a very disreputable way. These days, however (at least in my experience) the vast majority of problems are created by or at the very least made much worse by consumer attitudes and behaviors.
You make a valid point as well. I wasn't trying to imply that one shouldn't be prepared with good information before a car purchase anymore than I would advocate a home purchase without doing your homework. The point I was attempting to make was that many car buyers approach the process with a great deal of built up resentment, anger and assume they will be ripped off.
I never like to hear about high pressure tactics such as the ones you describe - especially from a Lexus dealer. Not all dealers and salespeople are like that so find a location that is ethical and treats you with respect.
"I always find it funny that car salesmen complain about customer attitudes when the behavior of their industry has fostered such an attitude."
I will admit that many years ago the retail auto industry began acting in a very disreputable way. These days, however (at least in my experience) the vast majority of problems are created by or at the very least made much worse by consumer attitudes and behaviors.
11-15-06, 04:42 PM
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I have to admit that the saleswoman that sold me my F150 was honest, polite, friendly, and completely up-front. There was no flim flam, slight of hand tactics nor any sort of sleaze. So maybe we're both right! :-)
BTW, if you ever need a Ford in Massachusetts, give Deb Aubrey a call. She gives car salesmen a good name.
Chris
BTW, if you ever need a Ford in Massachusetts, give Deb Aubrey a call. She gives car salesmen a good name.
Chris
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