syswei

Someone posted this on edmunds:

I just came from the local dealer and he had a big surprize! He said after the V8 LS, a V10 (LS500) will be released about december-January. He called it ultra ultra in the $120K range. What do guys know about this? I had guessed the LS500 was coming but I thought for sure it would be after LF-A. BTW he said in 24 months the LF-A would be here. He also talked about the whole range of ISs including IS500 and hardtop convertible 2 door coup. Lexus is going nuts with cars but no news on the SUVs at all.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX?14@@.ef3fc23/1994

Has anyone here heard anything like this?

XeroK00L

Whoa that's a lot of rumors. I also heard that the V10 in the LF-A is only a 4.5L one and not a 5.0L. The other rumor hints at a 4.0L V10 in the IS400.

No matter which engine they choose Lexus surely should start competing on the high-performance end with its rivals. Hopefully they'll get more serious this time.

Gojirra99

Never heard of a V10 LS500, actually I would think a LS500 would be a mid-cycle upgrade from LS460 3 years down the road using the new 5.0 V8 in the LS600hL.

However, I have personally speculated that they might want to put the V10 developed for the LF-A to good use by putting slightly differently tuned versions of it into other models such as sportier performance versions of the GS, LS & the next SC. Never heard of a V10 LS500 at all, particularly as early as the coming december or January, I would take that with a grain of salt. It could be more believable if it's december 2007 instead. . .

encore888

I don't want to see Lexus create anything above the LS....but if the rumors are true, then Lexus will be taking a serious crack at the ultra-luxury market in the near future with the approach of a six-figure automobile that is still this side of $100,000. But I'm concerned that a new designation sedan will erode the 'top-of-the-line' image of the LS.

Having a LS 500 would IMO enhance the LS image further and keep the LS at the top, which I like. It's worth noting how the LS 430 was named 'best luxury car in the world' in a comparison with Bentley, Maserati, Rolls Royce, et al.

But all these derivatives strikes me as being a lot lot lot! The LS 600h L is out now and that is the pinnacle flagship vehicle. It is, already, a 'Super-LS.' I don't think putting in a V10 right now would be a good idea until after the LS 600h L has been out for quite a while--resale value and all that.

I also wonder if all that power, if a V10 comes out, could be good for a further LS stretch to Maybach-style proportions...the 'Ultra-LS.'

I agree too with the need for Lexus to do more performance competition, not just with hybrids which are more of a technological marvel. Perhaps the Lexus GT 500 will kick start those efforts, before we see the LS 500.

Gojirra99

Well, do you think the Maybach eroded the top of the line image of the S class ?
Yes they gave it a different brand name, but everybody knows it's a Mercedes & it's sold in Mercedes dealership.
I'd still take a S65 AMG over the Maybach even if money is not an issue( unless I need a car specifically to be chauffeur driven in so I can sit in the back of a Maybach 62 ), even though I'm still kinda luke warm over the overall look & feel of the new S class after examining it carefully in person.

If they can build a new model above the LS that's not only even more luxurious, but looks more desirable & impressive than the new LS, I'm all for it. We don't know what it's going to be like yet, maybe you'll like it after you see it. (if this rumour is true)

encore888

^^^
They called it a Maybach, which provides differentiation and much-needed distinction. I have no problem with a Lexus Super-Sedan being sold in Lexus dealerships--that would up the ante for the whole lineup. But I would prefer if Lexus seriously considered making this Super-Sedan a special designation.

The point with the S-class is any higher and you need to go either Maybach/AMG/Brabus/sports coupe. It is marketed as 'at the top of one company is one car...the S-class.' If a Super-Sedan comes out for Lexus, one would not be able to make the same claim for the LS unless they use the LS designation, or differentiate.

I am all for a super-Lexus. I think that the way the brand is going, it is on an upward trajectory. The LS 460 debut has surpassed some of my most wild expectations. If they can do what they did with the LS 460, and come up with a limousine that could replace the Toyota Century (in theory), then...wow. Imagine full panorama/skylight/glowing roof, twin back seats where both recline and have massage, not just a cool box but rear seat mini-bar, a supercharged V-12 and artificial intelligence, intuitive car comfort concierge...come to think of it, I wouldn't mind if it were a further stretched and enhanced LS 500 V-10 or V-12...

However, I would be very mindful of the dangers of cannibalizing the prestigious image of the LS. I have a very strange but apt analogy. In Las Vegas, Steve Wynn designed the Mirage Hotel in 1989 to be 'the best resort on the strip" and for years it was. It had the highest earnings of any hotel-casino on the strip, and had rave reviews--the best shows--everything. Then, in 1993, he opened the Bellagio, which was supposed to cap his resort chain with a 5-diamond, ultra luxury resort. He claimed the Mirage was still 'the best resort in Las Vegas' but Bellagio was 'the best resort in the world.' But the damage was done--nowadays, the Mirage is still popular but the prices and prestige have dropped--along with room rates, and top-earner status (although still in top-5). The Bellagio took the crown of top-earner, and also more recently took some of the top restaurants from the Mirage.

So you can build a 'best in class' but if you then make a 'best in world' too close by, it can lower the appeal of 'best in class.' Now Lexus will probably make this new car, say the '600 LS' a low-volume vehicle--which will help. But I think giving it different designation, such as having the numbers before letters a la Maybach, would help soften the impact. Keeping it as a Lexus would be necessary as the brand is not yet that large and globally established--but I wonder if some kind of sub-brand be used. "Lexus Limousines" or "Lexus _______" could work.

If some of these strategies are employed, the differentiation would be made and the LS series safe...

I have strong faith in the Lexus marketing scheme which I believe is the most effective in the auto industry. It's telling how the 1989 LS 400 was badged in the rear--only as 'Lexus' so as to start out the brand. 'LS 400' placed on the rear would cheapen the result for a beginner brand as the consumer is noticing 50% the nameplate and 50% the car designation. By using 'Lexus' only, they achieved the focus on that nameplate so that stacked next to Benz, et al, there was more parity. Later on, as the Lexus nameplate grew famous, the designations were added.

Now, the next target is leveling the playing field and that's part of the reason why I think all new models except the LS (and the LS designation now has cachet), have the model designation lower towards the bumper, and the Circle-L logo alone on top. That matches Benz, BMW et al in focusing attention on the marque symbol. Now, Lexus TV ads and print just this year have dropped the 'Lexus' name and are using the badge symbol only...another step towards parity with the Germans where the symbol (particularly 3-point star) is known automatically.

So can they pull the marketing off with the New Super-Lexus? The LS series has it down right...I think a LS 500 would be great, but above that...they will have to be careful.