LS - 1st and 2nd Gen (1990-2000) Discussion topics related to the 1990 - 2000 Lexus LS400

Lowering vs. alignment

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Old 04-10-14, 05:53 AM
  #16  
Greg5OH
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Originally Posted by Shmee
Please post your alignment sheets.


It's that other 10% that could be the difference.... thats the point.
You are also on a pressure based air system, correct? You could be seeing ride height differences there as well.

Point is, you don't know where your problem is coming from and if you are driving around at height not what you aligned it to, that will cause wear. If you aligned it to a lower height for the highway but drive around town at a higher height, you are likely going into a toe-out situation which would be murder on tires at more casual speeds and extreme steering angles.

Do you find it kind of "darty" when driving at your city height?
Do you notice a lot of scrub in lower speed parking lot driving when making 90º turns?

Next time you have it on the rack at your "highway height" and it's all aligned in, kick it up to your city height and see what your specs go to. I bet it's out enough that even with only 10% of your time spent at that height, thats probably where you are having your issues.
Ill try digging it up.

Yes it is pressure based which is garbage. This is why i check my ride height with a tape measure EVERY TIME before heading onto the freeway. I do 2 trips a month of 700 kms each. This is where the wear occurs.I check before and after every highway run. I will drive it to the store and back once or twice a week which is like 5 kms from my house roundtrip. This is not where the wear occurs (yes i agree the toe angle changes but the amount of time driven at slightly higher height is negligent when compared to the highway miles., but i can literally see my tires getting more worn after the highway runs) When i did a 2000 km trim 2 weeks ago that had significant impact on front tire wear on the freeway. Same height I have it aligned to and roll at 90% of the time, and 100% of the time on the freeway.
Like I said I will go out with a tape measure, verify the height at all 4 corners right before the on ramp, then do my 400km trip. The pressure in the bags ends up being whatever it needs to be to have the right height.

I recently installed the height sensors, calibrated them but something is wonky with them. Perhaps i crossed left and right side. So i still go by my good ol tape measure.

also, since the rack and hence tie rods, are behind the hub, you will get toe out when goign lower, and toe in when goign higher I believe.

Last edited by Greg5OH; 04-10-14 at 06:02 AM.
Old 04-10-14, 07:26 AM
  #17  
Hiroshi12
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Originally Posted by PureDrifter
this thread is useless without specs.
Well, sorry PD, but my intent was not to compare specs with anyone since we all have different setups. Just wanted others' opinions on how (or if) they corrected alignment issues after dropping thier cars. So, the thread is useful to me.
Old 04-10-14, 07:29 AM
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Hiroshi12
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Originally Posted by timmy0tool
to the OP, i like to ride slammed (lower than your picture) AND still have decent alignment. there is definitely a happy medium as it all depends on the adjustment capability and alignment. to get my wheels to fit i had to maximize the cam bolts to get maximum negative camber yet still have good toe settings to minimize tire wear.

our cars have lots of factory adjustability so most of the time you can correct the geometry with no problems. i find that if you are too low the rear toe cam bolt can only go so far to correct. that's where an adjustable toe rod is beneficial.

now if you want to go all out demon-camber the car, that's a whole different story!
So driving around "slammed" can you really tell if your alignment is good/bad under normal driving conditions or does it only show at highway speeds?

Last edited by Hiroshi12; 04-10-14 at 07:35 AM.
Old 04-10-14, 07:32 AM
  #19  
Greg5OH
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Highway will show if you alignment is poor as you can feel if the car is drifting, unstable and the tires wear faster simply because more miles traveled and more heat is generated.
Old 04-10-14, 07:33 AM
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Hiroshi12
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Originally Posted by cgawelko
I want that ride height and setup...... thats exactly how I want mine to sit. What was your total cost for your setup?
Megan coils were around $700 and the toe/camber arms were about $400 for all 4. Don't forget - those are 16" wheels so if you go with a larger wheel (depending on your sidewall) you may have different results.

My rear coils are set almost all the way down, and I still have some adjustment on the front though I really can't go much lower up there. Even after rolling the fender lips I get some rubbing, esp. when cornering.
Old 04-10-14, 12:20 PM
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Shmee
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Originally Posted by Greg5OH
Highway will show if you alignment is poor as you can feel if the car is drifting, unstable and the tires wear faster simply because more miles traveled and more heat is generated.
That depends on the alignment. You can have a setup that is fine on the highway but poor in the city. depends on if the guy doing it accounted for road thrust and crown or not (or how much). In my experience, the drifting sensation is a matter of aligning on worn out parts.
A pull is a sign of a bad alignment, as is dartiness/twitchiness at all or some speeds and a lot of scrub in parking lots.

and if what you are saying above is true, and that your wear happens on the highway and you can watch it wear. i'd hazard you didm't account for the road thrust.

You still have yet to post your alignment specs or a pic(s) of your alignment/measurement log or detail your process for home-alignments, so everything is just blindly throwing darts as a wall...
Old 04-10-14, 04:12 PM
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Turbosauce
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I changed my car over to the megan coils and changed my front ball joints and before that my alignment was so bad that at 80 mph it was scary. even with all of the changes it still rides like it's on a cloud. but it has a little more beefy/sport feel to it thanks to the strut tower bar/brace.

I Just got my car aligned tuesday so i'm sure i have the sheet around here somewhere... hopefully.
Old 04-11-14, 12:04 AM
  #23  
cgawelko
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Originally Posted by Hiroshi12
Megan coils were around $700 and the toe/camber arms were about $400 for all 4. Don't forget - those are 16" wheels so if you go with a larger wheel (depending on your sidewall) you may have different results.

My rear coils are set almost all the way down, and I still have some adjustment on the front though I really can't go much lower up there. Even after rolling the fender lips I get some rubbing, esp. when cornering.
I cant find these coils on their website for the ucf10... tragic....
Old 04-11-14, 12:51 AM
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PureDrifter
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the megans were proto'd on UCF1x, there's a reason they don't list them for the 1st gen but if you call they'll say the same thing everyone here is telling you, they work fine.
Old 04-11-14, 12:58 AM
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cgawelko
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Why wouldnt they list them? Seems kinda odd to sell an unadvertised product. How adjustable are they? I was looking at the Lextreme ones which are a little cheaper but look like a unadjustable Koni and spring but price and how I can work with them helps me decide. Im cheap lol but i cant find any used sets but I think thats a good thing.

Any idea how long the Megans last before needing a new strut again?? The car does weigh 5k and probably isnt very nice to suspension bits
Old 04-11-14, 09:47 AM
  #26  
PureDrifter
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my Megans have ~35-45k miles on them if not more and seem to be holding up alright, no external leaks or boatlike handling.
Old 04-15-14, 09:03 AM
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Greg5OH
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copynpasta from another forum i visit.

Thru reading motorcycle forums, it seems my tire wear can be attributed to this.

Long story short, ever since the car was put on airride, it has been chewing front tires. Chopping them actually, not typical too much toe in wear. It has been aligned numerous times for the right ride height where it spends most of its time on the highway. I checked it 3 times in 1 week, once myself and twice at a shop. Issue is that the inner treadblocks experience heel-toe wear, where the following tread block gets worn down quickly. Happens on the freeway only. Happens on summers and winters. Summers I run 45 psi due to the tire being stretched, i dont want to go under 40 as im scared of debeading. Winters I tried from 32-36. I realize nwo i should probably be at 28ish for the winters.
Also to be noted, this wear only happens on the front.
All components and bushings are brand new, bearings good.

So teh heel toe wear, happens on motorcycles, with eh following edge wearing quicker-is a result of too stiff of rebound damping. The car has 36 position single way adjustable shocks. All 4 corners are cranked at 34/36. its stiff. My guess is the PO did this so when hes riding low, the shock compensates for the lack of spring stiffness (less pressure in the bag). However thsi has a detrimental effect when at aligned ride height for the freeway.

I guess because of the weight on the front and higher bag pressure than the rear, the damping is too stiff and leads to thsi wear. Simple solution-I will loosen the struts up a bit and test.

Any input on this theory?
Old 04-15-14, 10:24 AM
  #28  
Shmee
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It's plausible, however, the adjustment on your shocks is not rebound specific but a blanket dampening adjustment.


Give it a try.
I'd probably want to flip the tires inside out if you haven't already. start with a clean shoulder so any new wear is noticeable is not confused with old wear...
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