Lexuslsguy

With your budget stereo I would get a low mileage 05 or 06 430 vs a high mileage 07 or 08 460. You could pick up a very clean example with around 60k miles for 15 thousand.

johnnyg66

All I can say is I would still be driving my 400 if it was not totaled. I set out to get a newer LS. First thought a 05 or 06 LS430. Than I saw I could get a 460 for a bit more. I had to go to the next state to find a good one. Spent just under 18k. Cash.

It's a L version. Really like all the upgraded gadgets.

But I still miss my old 400.

Why do you want to move up knowing what you know about how a 460 can be a major cash cow.

Hope you find what you are looking for.

Doublebase

Realistically I'd say no; 250k is a lot of miles for any car to go without a mechanical problem, I'd say that's impossible. I'll give you an example, I own a 1999 Honda Accord...bought it new...maintained it religiously and when I say religiously, I mean religiously. It now has 285k miles on it, here's what I've done for repairs (and I'd consider it to be one of the most reliable cars I've ever seen)...three engine mounts, control arms (three times), power steering rack, tie rods, O2 sensors, EGR valve, Evap canister vent valve (twice), gas tank, countless sway bar bushings and links, brake lines, brake hoses, brake calipers (twice), an engine cradle (rotted out, known problem/defect), 3 mufflers, 2 struts, 4 ball joints, air cleaner snorkel (it cracked), valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket, right front axle, left front axle, transmission shift sensor, fuel lines. Despite all that the car has had a vibration since 100,000 miles...never could get rid of it...balanced tires, rotated tires, changed rims, replaced else...it's still there. And the braking system has given me countless problems since 100,000 miles...lots of calipers have stuck...brake pulls, etc. But believe me when I say it, those are great cars.

MattyG

How about an alternative? Wait until the 5th generation LS shows up at the dealerships and the trade-in's will show up. You'll get yourself a 460 if that's what suits you. Yes, there will be no instant gratification. But market prices are going to decline once the new, sexy car gets the attention.

roadfrog

My post will be short and sweet. If you want it....get it. That's how I roll, and after 54 years, it hasn't left me regretting much. Yes, I would rather forget the nightmare of succumbing to the BMW 7 Series ownership, but the LS is no 7. My 08 now has 100k+ miles on it and it has been rock solid reliability except for a water pump which I DIY'd for 55 bucks or so in a couple of hours. Oh...and a battery.

jainla

That's what happens when you get BMW all over your hands…

Stereo I wasn't much older than you (or making that much more adjusted for cost of living) when 10 years ago I bought my LS430. Saved my pennies; picked the best one I could find and (knock on wood) aside from normal maintenance nothing's gone wrong.. yet.

Obviously working at the dealer you'll get first dibs on anything good; and a team of people to examine any potential purchase and (hopefully) help out with maintenance. And employee discount to bring parts to more affordable levels. And the people on this forum to help out with trivial issues.

That said I would expect maintenance for the LS460 to cost the same as the 430; owing to the fact that there is no timing belt but potential control arm issues etc. Obviously time will tell.

You'll have to be prepared for potentially more annoying electronic gremlins as there are more of them (computers) but the big issue for LWB cars would be the air suspension; as I think most if not all of them have it. So that's a risk. But there's 10 years of ownership experience on this and other forums; so if there's some hidden issue with the 460 chassis or design I think we would have seen it by now.

That being said if you can do it without using the rent money life is short; go for it. I agree with MattyG that when the LS500 shows up existing cars will probably drop in price (this happened when the LS460 arrived and a glut of 430 trade-ins showed up) so that might represent an opportunity.

Toyota's slogan in Japan: "Drive your Dreams"

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

Off topic, but I drove BMWs all my life until 2014. My cars were reliable (and I kept them all 10 years or more). The reason I stopped driving them is because they are now ugly cars. If that makes me shallow, then so be it! I think many of BMWs problems are because they are bought used by people who don't/can't afford to maintain them. I bought the LS460 because it is a pretty car and a Lexus, which we had good luck with in the past (although no more reliable than the BMWs). Frankly, the LS has been a bit of a disappointment - wind noise, engine noise, creaks and rattles, sub-standard ride, sloppy handling, hesitation on acceleration, etc, etc. Such flaws are unacceptable in a flagship vehicle like this.

MattyG

It's actually not the idea of being shallow. It has to do with why you buy the vehicle in the first place. So if you value performance and styling then the BMW, MB and the Audi cars will appeal to you. They do perform as advertised. It's the repair bills that drive most used car buyers away.

But Lexus has its own charms. They don't break often. Things work the way they're supposed to.

On my GS I'm sure I've dumped in $1K/year in maintenance every year, including deferred maintenance from the previous owner etc. Is that much more than a German car? Hard to say.

roadfrog

Well that doesn't apply to any of the members at Bimmerfest. We all religiously maintain the vehicles as required. Maintaining them was never the issue, it was REPAIRING them constantly that caused such angst. We're not talking about expensive oil changes, pricey maintenance intervals and parts, but constant repairs and down time. When our cars are blowing blue smoke at 50k miles and going through a qt of oil every two weeks because of valve stem seals, that goes FAR beyond normal maintenance. Carboned up engines and secondary air systems......transmission leaks, valve cover gasket leaks, coolant pipes buried inside the engine that need replacing every 50k miles or so (to the tune of 4-6k dollars).....etc. To this day I still get emails and private messages from members there asking for my help for the same problems we all suffered. As I've said before, there's good reason the 7 made ii in Time Magazine's 50 worst cars of all time.

Doublebase

I find that with BMWs, yes they drive great...fun car...handles great...nice power, torque and acceleration. It's just that they break...they probably aren't made to be driven the way they perform/lead you to believe.

I talked to a factory rep for BMW a couple weeks ago, he said right now they are terrible cars. Not just the 3 series or the five or seven...he said all of them. They can't keep the oil in those cars, they are replacing engines at 50k miles, which is unheard of nowadays. He told me they actually tell their techs to overfill the crankcase when they do an oil change because they know that the engine will just use the oil anyway. Crazy. And part of their problem is that they told the customers they could extend oil change intervals - because they wanted to make the brand more appealing by lowering maintenance costs - they have since reduced their suggested oil change interval in half. Most manufacturers are increasing theirs and BMW has to cut theirs in half.

I like BMWs...always liked the way they looked and drove, but there's a reason why I never bought one.

dlbuckls10

A friend of mines bought a new BMW 5-series about 2 years ago and its always In the shop. She said she plan to get rid of it before the warranty expires and she will never own another one. I purchased a used BMW 7-series in 1998 with 38K miles and a extended warranty. This BMW also stayed in the shop and Its apparent BMW haven't solved is reliability problems. During that time many of us didn't have access to car forums or the internet, otherwise I probably wouldn't have purchase that BMW headache. These forums are very helpful and My LS is definitely the best vehicle I've owned. When I did my research most of the reviews were good. I haven't experience any of the unacceptable flaws you mention and my 460 lived up to my expectations.

roadfrog

Which reminds me of something else I was going to say....

If that were the only issues my 7 series and my wife's X5 had suffered, we'd still be driving them. That said, my LS's ride is superior to the 7, but doesn't handle as well. Completely different dynamics and intents by both of these manufacturers.

My partner's wife just got rid of her X5 ;ast week with 55k miles on it because it was blowing blue smoke and needed a 6k dollar valve job. She also had a host of other issues. My other partner got rid of his 3 series last year because of electrical gremlins and constant cooling system issues and control arm bushing issues.

Again. BMW WISHES the only problems they had were wind noise!

CRowe14

I promise you this isn't an attempt to be snide nor redundant, but I too, for the most part, don't have any of these issues you've stated.

To specifically recap your points though:

Wind Noise: It is very minimal at highway speeds, and I mean minimal. In fact, on my most recent road trip of 10+ one way, my average speed was about 80mph and when the only thing on inside the car was the heater blowing (which is also practically noiseless), the only sound I could hear was the car cutting through the wind and faint road noise from the tires on the pavement.
When I read about others complaining of road noise, I'm assuming its that loud whistling noise, correct?

Engine Noise: At a stop light, it is very, very, very subtle. No steering wheel or car vibration. Nothing.

Creaks & Rattles: Very little and honestly, its only in the afternoon when I'm leaving from work and the car has sat outside all day in the 20's. I swear, when its warmer, even mid 30's and upward, the car does not creek/pop at all.

The Ride: Aside from a light vibration at 76mph-80mph, I absolutely LOVE how this car rides. It's probably the primary reason why I love this car. Its incredibly smooth.
I attribute my vibration to two things:
1. The older OEM LCA's
2. Older but still in good shape tires
Guessing? Of course, but I do honestly believe that those two things would remedy my "slight" vibration at high speed.

Sloppy Handling: Well, I wouldn't call it sloppy, BUT...I will say that making turns at any rate of marked speed will have you shifting in your seat. But I think this is more of an issue in older models and has since been addressed in '13 and up.
I don't love that aspect of the car, but its something I can live with.

jainla

All too common from my BMW owner friends. The carbon valve issue seems to be particularly agreedous because non DI engines (or the LS style dual port / DI systems) never had this issue.

Here in California; where cars don't rust, I see plenty of 20 year old Mercedes and Lexus cars on the road. BMW? Audi? Not so much...

Stereorob

guess ive been stupid lucky with my cars. ive heard Ls400 horror stories but there rare. by buddy just bought a 92 in seemingly really nice condition. not too many owners, extensive service history, no evidence of wrecks etc. youd think everything would be golden on it. wrong. he has had the car for 4 months and has been able to drive it for 2 weeks in that time. in the first 3 days the tranny went, then the whole PS system went, then the alternator went, and now the starter just went on it. he drives it like a race car so that's probably the issue, that and that its a 25 year old car, but my god he has had so many problems. I drive my 95 aggressively but not stupidly, plus I maintain it. in the three years ive owned it, ive put close to 100k on it, and have had to change nothing, and I mean NOTHING on it. all ive done are brake pads, wiper blades, and oil ever 10k miles. not bad for a car that's 21 years old with 200k on it, with mostly original parts. I recently found out that the spark plugs are totally original and still runs perfect. hows that even possible? wtf. anyway it just now has an issue. steering rack went but again that's just a normal wear item plus its probably my own stupid fault cause I ran over a concrete median a few years back which scraped just about everything under the car to hell. anyway, hoping for the same kind of luck with the 460. I really don't like the 430 and never have