FatherTo1

I recall posts saying the 2010 ML audio system is not as good, or not the same, as 07-09 systems. I really like the bass and clarity on the 07-09 model years. I have not heard the system in a 2010 yet.

I am shopping for a 2009-2012 LS. I realize the 2010s introduced Gen6 Nav and native bluetooth streaming, which I would really like to have. However, if the 2009s have the "better" ML audio system, then is it better to get a 2009 and add in a third-party BT streaming device? Hopefully I have my facts correct.

I suppose if the choice really came down to it, the 2010 features would probably still win out (restyled bumper and lights, Gen 6 nav).

comotiger

You are over-thinking this. "Better" is so subjective. I am sure the ML audio on the 2010+ cars is just as good as that in the 2007-2009 cars. Then again, since you are buying used, the audio components will have different amounts of wear and tear based on how the previous owner used the system. It is more important to factor in the benefits of BT streaming etc in the newer cars and not worry so much about the quality of the audio. You will be very happy with the ML audio in all these cars.

FatherTo1

Thank you for helping me see things more clearly, comotiger.

You're right, I'll try to look for a 2010. I wanted at least a 2009 because the front passenger seat memory will actually come in handy for us. But then I just learned native BT streaming support was only introduced on the 2010s.

I hope 2010s are commonly equipped with reclining rear seats (but minus the rear AC unit). It seems rear reclining seats are common on 2007 and 2008 but I haven't come across the option in 2009s for sale. Probably a reshuffling of the packages makes the Comfort Plus harder to come by. I also wish 90% of the 460s for sale weren't black inside or outside. I understand black on black is "popular" but that's just too depressing, like driving around in a black hole. I have only seen one Matador Red for sale, out of hundreds of listings and it was a SWB. I wonder if a Matador Red LWB even exists. Hopefully I can find a 2010 LWB in Matador Red or white, and with rear reclining seats.

comotiger

If you want the reclining seats in the 460L, they seem to be most commonly found in the black/black or black/tan (saddle) combo. And air suspension would be packaged with the reclining seats. In the past year, I recall seeing less than 5 Matador Red LWB, and only two had the reclining rear seats, one 2012 and one 2013. I remember because I loved the matador red of my 2012 LS! There are a lot of LWB white cars, but very few with the reclining seats. So, it's very likely you will not find a 2009-2012 LWB with the features you want, within your budget, and located in CA. But anything is possible, good luck!

comotiger

I did a quick search, and wow, I found three "red" LWB with reclining rear seats!! I generally look only at AWD vehicles, but it appears that there could be many more RWD vehicles with the features you want. The catch is these vehicles are far away from you in VA, AL and WI. Anyways, keep looking and you never know...

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...3650/overview/

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...0899/overview/

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...7917/overview/

FatherTo1

Thank you, comotiger! I was just about to ask where most forum members found their LSes. I am searching on cars.com, autotrader, Edmunds, and Craigslist. I briefly looked at eBay motors but have never bought a vehicle through the site.

The wife and I have decided to increase the budget a smidge to 20k in hopes of getting a 2009 or newer. I greatly appreciate the links to red LSes that you found. Although red, they're the Spinel Mica and look more burgundy to me.

Also, what are your thoughts about purchasing from small independent dealerships? I am starting to shy away from them after my last three test drives because it seems they source their cars from auctions and none of the examples I test drove sounded or drove properly, despite clean titles and clean Autocheck and Carfax reports. I was initially attracted to the prices at such dealerships but am now willing to pay more from a more reputable, larger dealership or private party. Thanks again for your help and advice, comotiger.

FatherTo1

I briefly considered this 2009. The interior color isn't my top choice but the wife likes it. Also, it doesn't have the reclining rear seats. The driver's seat has, IMO, pretty bad cracking on the front edge. The car is two hours away so I haven't test driven it yet but am not in a rush to end the search. I do like the bright white exterior. Lexus service records indicate it was well-maintained. There's a lot I like about the car but also don't want to later say "I should have waited to get such and such option...".

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/5891020023.html

Gbp

Unfortunately, your budget would have to be likely higher than $20K for a 2010 in good condition, but there are definite improvements over even 2009. Some you are ptbably already familiar with, such as turn signal integration with the side mirrors, built-in Bluetooth audio streaming, USB port, Eco-mode indicator. Others you might not be familiar with Include auto slide-away driver's seat, making entering and exiting the car easier, front active headrests, and a better Comfort Plus package on the SWB that adds semi-aniline leather, lumbar massage rear seats, and butterfly rear headrests.

http://pressroom.lexus.com/article_d...rticle_id=2656

I'm sure you would still be happy with a 2009. I just like the slight improvements in the 2010-2012 model years.

Cubbylex

Hi Fto1

I was looking for over a year after I decided to go with Lexus after looking at all the other LWB options from other manufacturers.

Lucky to to find this site and it helped me decide to go for 2010-2012 as this was in my price range as well. I was just lucky to find mine at a large family owned dealer in Dallas. It was bought at auction and they had all the history from Lexus. I was hoping to miss out in the suspension issues in 07-09, but found out mine was built in 10/09 and nothing shows they have been replaced, but I don't have any issues so far.

Mine is Matadoe Red Mica with Alabaster aniline leather everywhere. I was just lucky cuz, like you, I did not want black in or out and Silver/Gray weren't at the top of my list either.

However, if you can, keep looking and maybe you will find one that meets most or all of what you want. Mine has rear a/c and I was concerned that a wheelchair would not fit because of a family member, but it does, so I was lucky there also.

I hope you you have good luck in finding what you want.

Happy New Year.

Cubby

comotiger

I found my cars (2012 SWB and current car) on cars.com. And most vehicles are also cross-listed on cargurus and autotrader.


I don't have extensive car-buying experience, so you are better off with car-buying advice provided by reputable sources like Edmunds/Consumer Reports etc. IMO, if you do due diligence, you can get a good vehicle and a good deal anywhere-private seller, small or large dealership, used car dealerships. Remember that the preowned sales depts at large dealerships may also buy vehicles at auctions, so that should not be considered a negative.

nsaldanh

If audio is your main criteria then the 2007 - 2009 LS cars have the best audio system. They don't have bluetooth audio though. The ML audio system on the 2010 - 2012 is awful.

Gbp

I've read mixed reviews on the ML audio comparison. Most agree that the lower-end bass sounds better on 2007-2009 compared with 2010-2012 and that the volume from some sources, such as USB and Bluetooth, needed to be boosted on 2010-2012, but not on 2007-2009.

i'll defer to those who know more and have better hearing than than I, but I'd suggest anyone interested in ML audio extensively test in the system across both model year ranges, in both an optimal sound environment (the car at rest, motor off) and a less optimal sound environment (the car in motion at various speeds). Bring a high quality CD that will really test the frequency response of the systems, from lows to highs.

sktn77a

iTrader: (2)

I have a 2007 with ML and have been looking at 2014s with the ML, too. While I haven't spent as much time with the 2014 ML system, it doesn't sound "awful" to me. Maybe subtly different here and there but not inferior.

FatherTo1

Sadly, but true, Gbp. The best I can find so far is a silver 2009 460L AWD at a Ford dealership in Topeka, Kansas. It is listed for $21.7k. Trying to see how low they're willing to go. I really didn't want a black interior but I am intrigued by the prospect of AWD.

Do the reclining rear seats take up any trunk space, or is it only the rear AC/cooler box (or hybrid batteries) that consumes trunk space? I have been ignoring cars if the rear armrest had the whole barrage of button controls (because it meant rear AC unit and, thus, reduced trunk space). However, the 2009+ had increased trunk space with the rear seat upgrades. Gbp, can you please share a photo of what the trunk space looks like on yours (since I think you have an UltraLux with rear AC)? I am trying to figure out if the 2009+ with rear AC unit still has a larger trunk than a 2007/2008 with only reclining seats. If that is the case, then I can broaden my search filters more on 2009+.

Junglequac

The native BT streaming known properly as A2DP can be easily added via Vaistech's workaround: http://www.vaistech.com/product/mml-t1/
It also charges the phone while connected and it shows up on the screen of the car.

While not as elegant as having it natively, it works, only requires you I think to switch to the Aux input (CD Changer button as well). Also remember that the 2007-2009's have an Aux input that only requires a 3.5mm to 3.5mm (like the headphone jack on the iPhone size) and while it does not show up on the display, it actually sounds pretty good and requires nothing more than a $10 cable.

As for LCA's, with the price delta between 2007-2009's and especially 2012 forward, you can have them replaced at an indy several times over without coming close to the difference in price. Hopefully it would not come down to that!