General braking question - possibly brake shim related?
01-10-14, 12:44 AM
#1
Rookie
Thread Starter
General braking question - possibly brake shim related?
Guys,
I've been having an annoying issue with the brakes on my LS460 for the best part of a year now. Basically just before I come to a complete stop I get this creaking noise. I can feel it through the brake pedal and it almost seems like the brakes are grabbing at the rotors.
This is consistent with the fact that I don't seem to be able to come to an entirely smooth stop. I feel the brakes grab, I hear the creak and then the last 2-3mph instantly becomes 0mph resulting in an abrupt stop.
The noise also occurs when the car is in 'D' and I release the brake enough for it to creep forward slightly. Interestingly I can bring the car to a perfectly quiet stop at any speed if I engage 'N' before slowing down.
It started happening shortly after I bought the car, and as the rotors and pads were worn I decided to do the brake job myself. I purchased all OEM parts and used copper grease on the backs of the pads and shims, greased the sliding pins, cleaned everything properly. So a fairly decent job (i thought?).
The noise went away for about a week, but as soon as the cross hatching on the rotors had worn away, the issue returned.
As my LS has 140k miles I'm beginning to wonder whether it could be down to worn brake shims (or maybe even sliding pins)? To my knowledge these parts have never been replaced so if they are worn considerably maybe they are allowing too much movement?
Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I've tried several LS forums but as there aren't many LS460 DIY'ers, knowledge is limited.
I've been having an annoying issue with the brakes on my LS460 for the best part of a year now. Basically just before I come to a complete stop I get this creaking noise. I can feel it through the brake pedal and it almost seems like the brakes are grabbing at the rotors.
This is consistent with the fact that I don't seem to be able to come to an entirely smooth stop. I feel the brakes grab, I hear the creak and then the last 2-3mph instantly becomes 0mph resulting in an abrupt stop.
The noise also occurs when the car is in 'D' and I release the brake enough for it to creep forward slightly. Interestingly I can bring the car to a perfectly quiet stop at any speed if I engage 'N' before slowing down.
It started happening shortly after I bought the car, and as the rotors and pads were worn I decided to do the brake job myself. I purchased all OEM parts and used copper grease on the backs of the pads and shims, greased the sliding pins, cleaned everything properly. So a fairly decent job (i thought?).
The noise went away for about a week, but as soon as the cross hatching on the rotors had worn away, the issue returned.
As my LS has 140k miles I'm beginning to wonder whether it could be down to worn brake shims (or maybe even sliding pins)? To my knowledge these parts have never been replaced so if they are worn considerably maybe they are allowing too much movement?
Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I've tried several LS forums but as there aren't many LS460 DIY'ers, knowledge is limited.
01-10-14, 06:32 AM
#2
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
moving to right forum. gl.
01-10-14, 09:27 AM
#4
It's very hard to diagnose based on your description because there are a lot of contradictory observations.
The things I would check are:
1. Brake actuator.
2. Get the brakes bled.
3. If its AWD It might be the source of the creaking when coming to a stop.
The things I would check are:
1. Brake actuator.
2. Get the brakes bled.
3. If its AWD It might be the source of the creaking when coming to a stop.
01-10-14, 12:58 PM
#6
Rookie
Thread Starter
1 . I do have the 'normal' brake actuator issues where it makes a bit of a 'windscreen wiper squeak' noise if you press the pedal down hard.
2. Next service in a week includes a brake fluid change so hopefully that will help.
3. Not AWD unfortunately.
I was just about to drop £200 on some new shims, fitting kit (clips..etc) and sliding pins. Should I hold off if none of these are likely to the the culprit?
01-10-14, 01:19 PM
#7
Yeah I know what you mean. For every possible explanation there is something that contradicts it
1 . I do have the 'normal' brake actuator issues where it makes a bit of a 'windscreen wiper squeak' noise if you press the pedal down hard.
2. Next service in a week includes a brake fluid change so hopefully that will help.
3. Not AWD unfortunately.
I was just about to drop £200 on some new shims, fitting kit (clips..etc) and sliding pins. Should I hold off if none of these are likely to the the culprit?
1 . I do have the 'normal' brake actuator issues where it makes a bit of a 'windscreen wiper squeak' noise if you press the pedal down hard.
2. Next service in a week includes a brake fluid change so hopefully that will help.
3. Not AWD unfortunately.
I was just about to drop £200 on some new shims, fitting kit (clips..etc) and sliding pins. Should I hold off if none of these are likely to the the culprit?
There are too many possibilities as it can also be a bad brake caliper or any of the above I mentioned. When you come to a dead end trying to find the source of the problem it then becomes wise to take it to a professional for diagnosis then trying to shotgun a solution by throwing parts at it.
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01-10-14, 02:38 PM
#8
Lexus Fanatic
Do you live in a region where it is often wet? (I see your heading includes the U.K, which generally fits that term).
When iron or steel brake rotors get damp or wet and sit for a little while, sometimes even for only a few minutes (such as after a rain or other wet weather, overnight dew, letting the car sit after driving through a puddle and splashing, or after hand-washing the car), they tend to get a thin coat of brownish-orange on them. When you first start up the car and go, the first couple of times you use the brakes, you'll often get some grinding noise and vibration exactly under the cirmcumstances you mention.....just before the actual stop. That is normal. That's because the brake pads are rubbing against the rust particles rather then on the rotor's smooth metal. The noise and vibration should go away after a few brake-pedal applications, as the coat of rust gets worn off....if it doesn't, then you may (?) have another problem and the brakes may need to be looked at.
When iron or steel brake rotors get damp or wet and sit for a little while, sometimes even for only a few minutes (such as after a rain or other wet weather, overnight dew, letting the car sit after driving through a puddle and splashing, or after hand-washing the car), they tend to get a thin coat of brownish-orange on them. When you first start up the car and go, the first couple of times you use the brakes, you'll often get some grinding noise and vibration exactly under the cirmcumstances you mention.....just before the actual stop. That is normal. That's because the brake pads are rubbing against the rust particles rather then on the rotor's smooth metal. The noise and vibration should go away after a few brake-pedal applications, as the coat of rust gets worn off....if it doesn't, then you may (?) have another problem and the brakes may need to be looked at.
01-10-14, 03:15 PM
#9
Rookie
Thread Starter
Do you live in a region where it is often wet? (I see your heading includes the U.K, which generally fits that term).
When iron or steel brake rotors get damp or wet and sit for a little while, sometimes even for only a few minutes (such as after a rain or other wet weather, overnight dew, letting the car sit after driving through a puddle and splashing, or after hand-washing the car), they tend to get a thin coat of brownish-orange on them. When you first start up the car and go, the first couple of times you use the brakes, you'll often get some grinding noise and vibration exactly under the cirmcumstances you mention.....just before the actual stop. That is normal. That's because the brake pads are rubbing against the rust particles rather then on the rotor's smooth metal. The noise and vibration should go away after a few brake-pedal applications, as the coat of rust gets worn off....if it doesn't, then you may (?) have another problem and the brakes may need to be looked at.
When iron or steel brake rotors get damp or wet and sit for a little while, sometimes even for only a few minutes (such as after a rain or other wet weather, overnight dew, letting the car sit after driving through a puddle and splashing, or after hand-washing the car), they tend to get a thin coat of brownish-orange on them. When you first start up the car and go, the first couple of times you use the brakes, you'll often get some grinding noise and vibration exactly under the cirmcumstances you mention.....just before the actual stop. That is normal. That's because the brake pads are rubbing against the rust particles rather then on the rotor's smooth metal. The noise and vibration should go away after a few brake-pedal applications, as the coat of rust gets worn off....if it doesn't, then you may (?) have another problem and the brakes may need to be looked at.
I've had this through summer and winter and have even tried a series of 70-10mph heavy brakes to clean everything up with no avail Maybe I'll just have to bite the bullet and take it to a professional. I'll just kick myself if its something easily solved
01-11-14, 08:00 AM
#10
The reason our brake is relatively good is because if more aggressive pad material thus the creaking. Also it's possible due to shims. I would take your brake apart and look for pad wear '& clean up the shim and apply anti squeak grease on back of the shims.
Brake actuator will make noise even when not moving. Brake fluid (bleeding) has nothing to do with noise.
Brake actuator will make noise even when not moving. Brake fluid (bleeding) has nothing to do with noise.
01-11-14, 01:07 PM
#11
The reason our brake is relatively good is because if more aggressive pad material thus the creaking. Also it's possible due to shims. I would take your brake apart and look for pad wear '& clean up the shim and apply anti squeak grease on back of the shims.
Brake actuator will make noise even when not moving. Brake fluid (bleeding) has nothing to do with noise.
Brake actuator will make noise even when not moving. Brake fluid (bleeding) has nothing to do with noise.
If you ever bled a hydraulic clutch you can get this sound emanating from the clutch master or slave. It's very common and sometimes the bubble will dissipate on its own or will need to be bleed out.
I have encountered this situation too many times.
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