joined the timing belt club at ~ 87k
#47
Intermediate
iTrader: (3)
Again I'd be curious to know if the timing belt job caused a problem. If it did, at minimum, I want a) my money back b) the cost of having it done properly elsewhere c) the ticking fixed and whatever that costs
I get irritated when people are learning on my car, especially if the **** it up. They ought to say up front, hey, we don't have experience on your car, so that we can decide if we want to move forward or not, that's a professional courtesy imho....
I get irritated when people are learning on my car, especially if the **** it up. They ought to say up front, hey, we don't have experience on your car, so that we can decide if we want to move forward or not, that's a professional courtesy imho....
#48
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I was under the impression that my buddies shop had the experience at the time of when he picked up my car. However, after him having it and him needing to have a Toyota specialist come and check the timing, I am now leary. He does stand by his work (techs) and did say to let him know what the dealer finds and we will work something out (monetarily).
p.s. good they are willing to work it out--they will likely lose on this job and it's not worth it to do a 3UZFE again....
#49
But did they actually check? Or did the service adviser simply forget to relay that message back to the techs? Of all of the things done to the car it seems to me that the most likely event to cause your tick would be a loose spark plug. Keep us posted. Good luck...
#50
Pole Position
Valve covers have not been removed. Had the timing belt, water pump, pulley and tensioner, thermostat and spark plugs changed. I am starting to wonder with my buddies shop, granted he said he had a Toyota specialist who has worked on 3UZ's before make sure the timing was right. This was after his other tech put the timing belt on backwards, from what he told me. More than likely when I get back from travel and take it back to the dealer, I'm going to have them check the timing.
Agree that the rear spark plug (closest to firewall on passenger side) should be checked. Some members have had trouble removing/replacing that plug so your indie may have too.
The fact that your buddy's shop installed the timing belt backwards is very disconcerting. It sounds like someone with Toyota engine experience didn't actually do the work, but was over-seeing and supervising the work done by a novice. As you are probably aware, the 3UZ-FE is an interference engine (designed so to maximize compression). If the dual OHC timing is off, there is a chance of a piston colliding with valve. One "tooth" off on the passenger side cam may be just enough to cause slight tapping of one or more valves in a cylinder.
#52
Intermediate
iTrader: (3)
Listened to your audio clip again, and it sounds a little like a Toyota/Lexus 2GR-FE (V-6) which is notorious for valve train chatter, especially at start-up.
Agree that the rear spark plug (closest to firewall on passenger side) should be checked. Some members have had trouble removing/replacing that plug so your indie may have too.
The fact that your buddy's shop installed the timing belt backwards is very disconcerting. It sounds like someone with Toyota engine experience didn't actually do the work, but was over-seeing and supervising the work done by a novice. As you are probably aware, the 3UZ-FE is an interference engine (designed so to maximize compression). If the dual OHC timing is off, there is a chance of a piston colliding with valve. One "tooth" off on the passenger side cam may be just enough to cause slight tapping of one or more valves in a cylinder.
Agree that the rear spark plug (closest to firewall on passenger side) should be checked. Some members have had trouble removing/replacing that plug so your indie may have too.
The fact that your buddy's shop installed the timing belt backwards is very disconcerting. It sounds like someone with Toyota engine experience didn't actually do the work, but was over-seeing and supervising the work done by a novice. As you are probably aware, the 3UZ-FE is an interference engine (designed so to maximize compression). If the dual OHC timing is off, there is a chance of a piston colliding with valve. One "tooth" off on the passenger side cam may be just enough to cause slight tapping of one or more valves in a cylinder.
From what I was told was his tech has done timing belts, just not on a Lexus. I was not told this prior to the work (I should have asked). I was lucky as he was able to pick up my car while I was out on business travel so I did not have to miss work or not have a car. He also stated that upon the first start up they did get a check engine light, cam position sensor advanced (timing advanced?) or something to the like (has me worried). This is where the tech took the belt off and realigned, rechecked and same scenario. Granted I'm finding this out afterwards and when he finally called in a Toyota specialist to make sure it was right.
#53
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
I missed that, what does that really mean, with the teeth facing outward? And how would this be even determined....did they button up the motor, then open it again to find the belt is not on correctly?
My old belt does not have any marks on it, so the tech did not mark it like the youtube showed, but if a person did what the youtube shows, that's being extra careful in lining everything up and matching old belt to new, tooth for tooth...
#54
Intermediate
iTrader: (3)
I missed that, what does that really mean, with the teeth facing outward? And how would this be even determined....did they button up the motor, then open it again to find the belt is not on correctly?
My old belt does not have any marks on it, so the tech did not mark it like the youtube showed, but if a person did what the youtube shows, that's being extra careful in lining everything up and matching old belt to new, tooth for tooth...
My old belt does not have any marks on it, so the tech did not mark it like the youtube showed, but if a person did what the youtube shows, that's being extra careful in lining everything up and matching old belt to new, tooth for tooth...
#55
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
He told me that the belt was marked left and right (Toyota) and had the markings on it for timing. After his tech was unable to do it correctly, this is where the Toyota specialist came in and told them the the belt was on backwards and that was causing an issue. Working on vehicles I have always been taught when checking left to right, you do so as from the drive seat, not from the front of the vehicle. I am really thinking a valve issue and hoping it's not.
But, maybe he ignored the markings altogether, not that he doesn't know left and right.....
What the significance is, I don't know having not done the job myself. Meaning, the belt is the belt, it would seem the markings would help to make sure you haven't skipped a tooth? If your right mark is in the correct place, then your left would also, and the crank, that would be my edumacated guess...
What's more puzzling is at what point was this discovered...it's hard to figure out the sequence of events. When they got a code, did they actually open everything back up to look at the belt? Would be a tremendous amount of labor and a waste of coolant...the youtube showed the guy turning everything slowly with plugs removed to make sure things were ok...
#56
Pole Position
From what I was told was his tech has done timing belts, just not on a Lexus. He also stated that upon the first start up they did get a check engine light, cam position sensor advanced (timing advanced?) or something to the like (has me worried). This is where the tech took the belt off and realigned, rechecked and same scenario. Granted I'm finding this out afterwards and when he finally called in a Toyota specialist to make sure it was right.
#57
Intermediate
iTrader: (3)
You're telling us more relevant details ... My original suspicion is becoming (very unfortunately) more likely. The damage to a valve may already be done when they first turned it over with the belt on wrong and the passenger side cams possibly misaligned. Don't get stressed about it while you're on travel. It can be repaired.
I really appreciate everyones input and responses. I will update once the car is back at the dealer and it can be confirmed.
#58
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
decided to look at my old belt. There are 3 marks, R-CAM, L-CAM, AND CR. Each has an arrow and should point towards the radiator. I'm thinking without these marks, there would be no way to know what tooth to place the belt upon, since it is slack. Now, if it were to be put on backwards, with R and L reversed, but lined up to the center, and CR is lined up as well, I don't think it matters. Meaning the distance between the center of the arrows is still the same....
The oddity, is, that say you did not know these 3 marks exist--if you put the belt on such that Toyota reads properly when you're standing in front of the motor, the belt is on backwards. Would Toyota have even thought of this?
Mine says Toyota 13568-50020, and it looks like this. It says C118 N24 Z5187, THEN 5188, 5189, and ends with 5193. I also found a seam on the belt on the inside, which I did not know existed.
http://image.made-in-china.com/44f3j...568-59095-.jpg
To me, it boils down to if they fired up the motor and something was not right....seems like that's why the guy in the youtube went to the trouble of taking the plugs out, and then turning the motor to see if there were any resistance....hope this gets sorted out...
The oddity, is, that say you did not know these 3 marks exist--if you put the belt on such that Toyota reads properly when you're standing in front of the motor, the belt is on backwards. Would Toyota have even thought of this?
Mine says Toyota 13568-50020, and it looks like this. It says C118 N24 Z5187, THEN 5188, 5189, and ends with 5193. I also found a seam on the belt on the inside, which I did not know existed.
http://image.made-in-china.com/44f3j...568-59095-.jpg
To me, it boils down to if they fired up the motor and something was not right....seems like that's why the guy in the youtube went to the trouble of taking the plugs out, and then turning the motor to see if there were any resistance....hope this gets sorted out...
#59
Pole Position
decided to look at my old belt. There are 3 marks, R-CAM, L-CAM, AND CR. Each has an arrow and should point towards the radiator. I'm thinking without these marks, there would be no way to know what tooth to place the belt upon, since it is slack. Now, if it were to be put on backwards, with R and L reversed, but lined up to the center, and CR is lined up as well, I don't think it matters. Meaning the distance between the center of the arrows is still the same....
Yes, of course the engineers did. That's why the belt is marked "R-CAM" and "L-CAM." The R-CAM is the passenger side, not the driver's side. That is likely where the error was made by 02Legend's tech.
#60
Lexus Fanatic
Thread Starter
It does matter. There's only one (correct) way to put the timing belt on.
Yes, of course the engineers did. That's why the belt is marked "R-CAM" and "L-CAM." The R-CAM is the passenger side, not the driver's side. That is likely where the error was made by 02Legend's tech.
Yes, of course the engineers did. That's why the belt is marked "R-CAM" and "L-CAM." The R-CAM is the passenger side, not the driver's side. That is likely where the error was made by 02Legend's tech.
it seems like the arrows are there to count the correct number of teeth between each center, because a human cannot possibly count them manually. But if one were to draw their own arrows, say 17 teeth from each Mark, it would seem it doesn't matter. I'm probably missing something, and wondering what it is....
Also, I'm saying Toyota is upside down when the arrows are pointing forward. Intuitively, it should not be that way...if I saw it, I would say shucks is it the wrong way?
edit: what I'm driving at is it is best practice to look at how a part came out. I have seen posts on my other forum where a person cannot determine the correct path for a serpentine belt, and online pics conflict. My wife's air filter is a pita because one torx bolt can be dropped into the engine bay. I realized I did not pay attention to the orientation of the old and I reinstalled the new without thinking about it. So I emailed my cousin, could I have put the filter in upside down? He said impossible, look at the shape, it is not symmetrical, it can only be dropped in one way.....
edit 2. If the number of teeth from the L cam to CR, is inequal to the number of teeth from the R cam to CR, it would absolutely matter which way the belt goes in, provided you are using the marks...hehe I will count them, but not tonight...
Last edited by Johnhav430; 02-26-17 at 04:50 PM.