Lexus LFA: A lost decade and a sales dud
#76
I think you are just generalizing from your own experience on wealth and cars. All I can say is not everyone is of the same view. Agree to disagree?
You're missing the point entirely. First on the depreciation front, even owners who plan to keep cars for a long time care. The issue is about keeping their options opened without getting burned. Anyone with an ounce of business sense, regardless of wealth thinks about that stuff. If they claim they don't, either they are ignorant, or they didn't earn their money in the first place. Depreciation matters.
Second, how you build a SUSTAINED brand is entirely different than how you sustain a one off product niche. As soon as the marketing dies, as soon as the cars are all in the hands of the owners, the brand for the LFA belongs to that group and not Lexus. As an example, lets say that for argument, the LFA has very strong appeal to guys with mullets who buy up all the LFAs. Lexus then has two choices, either accept the mullet brand or do something to change it. But now what? All the cars are sold!!! Do you spend millions to distance yourself from the mullet guys or do you start building other cars that appeal to mullet buyers? Scary thought I know. The point is that how you market a one off and how you market a brand you intend to sustain are two different things.
Second, how you build a SUSTAINED brand is entirely different than how you sustain a one off product niche. As soon as the marketing dies, as soon as the cars are all in the hands of the owners, the brand for the LFA belongs to that group and not Lexus. As an example, lets say that for argument, the LFA has very strong appeal to guys with mullets who buy up all the LFAs. Lexus then has two choices, either accept the mullet brand or do something to change it. But now what? All the cars are sold!!! Do you spend millions to distance yourself from the mullet guys or do you start building other cars that appeal to mullet buyers? Scary thought I know. The point is that how you market a one off and how you market a brand you intend to sustain are two different things.
#77
It would certainly feel like a failure in the execution of the LFA sales and marketing. However, in the big picture, if a bunch of LFA technologies get into some amazing future F cars that successfully compete with the M, RS and AMG, then it would be a huge success for Lexus.
I have no doubt that the LFA will be soldout, but that may not occur without having to allocate more cars back to Japan.
I have no doubt that the LFA will be soldout, but that may not occur without having to allocate more cars back to Japan.
Some good posts, again my issue is again with these **** poor articles on auto news sites more than with solid complaints about the car itself.
Question for yall. If the LFA sold 450 units or around 90% of its production run instead of 500, would you consider it a "failure"? I'm not even sure what to think yet. As I stated before, quite frankly its astonishing Lexus sold one . Lexus is the only Japanese brand with a car over 100k and that is the LS 600 then you leap to 375k to the LFA.
Question for yall. If the LFA sold 450 units or around 90% of its production run instead of 500, would you consider it a "failure"? I'm not even sure what to think yet. As I stated before, quite frankly its astonishing Lexus sold one . Lexus is the only Japanese brand with a car over 100k and that is the LS 600 then you leap to 375k to the LFA.
#78
Lexus Test Driver
While I along with everyone else of course understand that people value money, a question forces itself into the back of my head - are these people really car enthusiasts? I mean, if you actually have to make money owning a car to consider buying one? It's not even good enough to limit operating costs, or even regaining capital and eating transaction fees, but actually making money? I dunno, I don't get it. I never understood the idea of a car as an investment and I doubt I ever will.
Question for yall. If the LFA sold 450 units or around 90% of its production run instead of 500, would you consider it a "failure"? I'm not even sure what to think yet. As I stated before, quite frankly its astonishing Lexus sold one . Lexus is the only Japanese brand with a car over 100k and that is the LS 600 then you leap to 375k to the LFA.
In any case, the notion of using sales as a metric for success for anything not called a Camry or Prius or Altima or Accord etc. is just another invention of those who struggle every day to find reasons to hate on the LFA. Were the SLR and Carrera GT failures simply because they didn't hit production targets? Does the GTR suck simply because Nissan thought they couldn't even sell 315 last year? The mere idea of car success being considered on such a basis is appalling.
#79
Is a cars success based on sales numbers? Of course not. The fact that the LFA made it to production in my book makes it a success. But what I think many here feel is that the LFA could have been a bigger success if it was priced differently along with Lexus thinking that they could use the low prodution numbers to boost interest and MSRP.
I really dont think all the cars lexus says is sold really is sold. Time will tell.............
And to whomever thinks resale, depreciation is not an issue with buyers must have all the money in the world.
I really dont think all the cars lexus says is sold really is sold. Time will tell.............
And to whomever thinks resale, depreciation is not an issue with buyers must have all the money in the world.
#80
Actually, the reverse is true with moneyed people. I've found that people in this group watch their pennies very closely. Perhaps this is how they get there in the first place.
All we are saying here is some are more worry about resale and depreciation than others. You can probably figure out who the others are if you gave it some thought.
All we are saying here is some are more worry about resale and depreciation than others. You can probably figure out who the others are if you gave it some thought.
#81
Some current disconnected thoughts:
The US allocation will stay where it is because Japanese companies like to stick with the plan once it is agreed upon.
The folks at Lexus told us in January 2010 in Miami that they have zero experience at marketing an exotic and they are experimenting. They started out with some plan and have moved/changed things as needed (buy it if you want). Some stuff like the choose the buyer definitely put some customers off and that is unfortunate.
No one is perfect in these promotion games. Tomorrow I will be driving Rollers (sponsored by RR and Worth magazine and supported by Perillo as they are building a RR shop in town) at a fancy invite only event at the Elysian Hotel. The chance of me buying a Roller is el zippo.
I can definitely see the concern light going on with the current prospects. Just look at the number of F cars that have shields on them not for love of the horse picture, but for resale aspects. In the case of the LFA no one has a decent idea of the secondary market. The closest example we have to date is that the car at JM in Florida has been sitting for at least a couple of months now with no home.
The flipper guy who came to chat should not be dismissed so quickly. If I have any facts straight, he make the biiiig bucks at Trinity Capitol flipping groups of Burger King franchises amongst other stuff. He is conditioned by making money flipping F cars, so why would he be looking to take a $50 to $75 K (theoretical) drubbing for a 6 month ride in an LFA before he gets his first 458 spider and clubs someone for the same amount in his favor.
The French article (hard to believe it is true) points to the most un Japanese aspect of the LFA. It is a point in time product. Here are the specs and we are going to build 500 perfect copies and call it a day. As we keep seeing with the GTR, an extreme yet flawed version that started the R35 story keeps giving way to better and better versions in true Japanese fashion.
The US allocation will stay where it is because Japanese companies like to stick with the plan once it is agreed upon.
The folks at Lexus told us in January 2010 in Miami that they have zero experience at marketing an exotic and they are experimenting. They started out with some plan and have moved/changed things as needed (buy it if you want). Some stuff like the choose the buyer definitely put some customers off and that is unfortunate.
No one is perfect in these promotion games. Tomorrow I will be driving Rollers (sponsored by RR and Worth magazine and supported by Perillo as they are building a RR shop in town) at a fancy invite only event at the Elysian Hotel. The chance of me buying a Roller is el zippo.
I can definitely see the concern light going on with the current prospects. Just look at the number of F cars that have shields on them not for love of the horse picture, but for resale aspects. In the case of the LFA no one has a decent idea of the secondary market. The closest example we have to date is that the car at JM in Florida has been sitting for at least a couple of months now with no home.
The flipper guy who came to chat should not be dismissed so quickly. If I have any facts straight, he make the biiiig bucks at Trinity Capitol flipping groups of Burger King franchises amongst other stuff. He is conditioned by making money flipping F cars, so why would he be looking to take a $50 to $75 K (theoretical) drubbing for a 6 month ride in an LFA before he gets his first 458 spider and clubs someone for the same amount in his favor.
The French article (hard to believe it is true) points to the most un Japanese aspect of the LFA. It is a point in time product. Here are the specs and we are going to build 500 perfect copies and call it a day. As we keep seeing with the GTR, an extreme yet flawed version that started the R35 story keeps giving way to better and better versions in true Japanese fashion.
#82
Lexus Test Driver
It's always easy to choose to ignore the differences in how and what people value, but it can just as easily result in a total lack of understanding of people's behavior.
No one dismissed anyone. My point was that armchair QBs factoring depreciation into actual sales figures should take care in doing so, because long-term owners have to exist either way. A guy who flips a 458 for a profit doesn't directly affect new 458 sales because the 458 had to be bought by someone. If a car depreciates - and with a minuscule number of exceptions, they all do - at least one owner is going to be left holding the bag.
#83
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I can definitely see the concern light going on with the current prospects. Just look at the number of F cars that have shields on them not for love of the horse picture, but for resale aspects. In the case of the LFA no one has a decent idea of the secondary market. The closest example we have to date is that the car at JM in Florida has been sitting for at least a couple of months now with no home.
#84
I've yet to meet an owner of exotics, be it a collector with several hundred million in cars, or a single exotic owner who doesn't look at depreciation as a component in their decision. To somehow say that makes them less of an enthusiast is laughable. Some account for it differently, but it's a consideration no matter what. The days of flipping cars have been long gone except for certain Ferraris where there is already a giant customer base that doesn't exist with any other brand.
We've beat this topic to death, but the it doesn't matter how many LFAs sell, they don't need to sell 500 for the car to be a success. 179 cars in the US will not likely appreciate or even hold value any better than any other exotic. It may or may not be worse. Owners in the US are far better served if the allocation shifts to other countries.
What everyone forgets is that once Lexus sells the cars, there will be less and less publicity about the LFA which will harm the product's awareness in the market, something that must be there to sustain a $400k car's value. I've strongly encouraged Lexus to continue to do something to sustain the group of owners somehow so interest in the car doesn't die and thus values drop.
I think the LFA is a very special car, but to keep it special will require continued effort on Lexus part. You forget that with every month that passes, other exotic brands are launching new models that do more for less as technology keeps advancing and without Lexus working to build the culture, and thus demand for used LFAs, they will see a large drop in value as consumers flock to something else.
We've beat this topic to death, but the it doesn't matter how many LFAs sell, they don't need to sell 500 for the car to be a success. 179 cars in the US will not likely appreciate or even hold value any better than any other exotic. It may or may not be worse. Owners in the US are far better served if the allocation shifts to other countries.
What everyone forgets is that once Lexus sells the cars, there will be less and less publicity about the LFA which will harm the product's awareness in the market, something that must be there to sustain a $400k car's value. I've strongly encouraged Lexus to continue to do something to sustain the group of owners somehow so interest in the car doesn't die and thus values drop.
I think the LFA is a very special car, but to keep it special will require continued effort on Lexus part. You forget that with every month that passes, other exotic brands are launching new models that do more for less as technology keeps advancing and without Lexus working to build the culture, and thus demand for used LFAs, they will see a large drop in value as consumers flock to something else.
#85
Lexus Test Driver
It just comes down to a matter of valuing certain aspects over others. Some people are going to value expected protection against depreciation over other features of a car, while others might go the other way. At one extreme, we have flippers and speculators who only consider buying a car if they can make a profit off short-term ownership; these people will be much less interested in the specific features of a car and the ownership experience - that seems pretty simple to me.
#86
I've posted many times on these boards that depreciation and resale were not factors in my decision to purchase an LFA - including in response to your past posts.
It just comes down to a matter of valuing certain aspects over others. Some people are going to value expected protection against depreciation over other features of a car, while others might go the other way. At one extreme, we have flippers and speculators who only consider buying a car if they can make a profit off short-term ownership; these people will be much less interested in the specific features of a car and the ownership experience - that seems pretty simple to me.
It just comes down to a matter of valuing certain aspects over others. Some people are going to value expected protection against depreciation over other features of a car, while others might go the other way. At one extreme, we have flippers and speculators who only consider buying a car if they can make a profit off short-term ownership; these people will be much less interested in the specific features of a car and the ownership experience - that seems pretty simple to me.
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