strongsail

When I got my '93 SC4 in April, the stereo didn't work well. It's the Nak system, and the left rear fill was dead and the sub was barely working. I have replaced the sub (not an easy job if you want to keep the brackets that hold down the grille on the rear deck, but that's another story) and both rear fills with Pioneer - a 10" freeair sub (model TS-W254F) and two 4" dual-cone oem replacements.

Everything works now, but I know I need better rear fills. The cheap little 4" oems have aluminized polyfilm whizzer cones, and they are too bright, which has moved the soundstage to the rear, which I don't like. Plus they are just wimpy, and I can drive them to clipping easily at about half volume. I want to replace them with 4" midbass drivers, with just a soft paper center dome, no whizzer cone at all, and with more power handling ability. I don't think we're talking big power numbers here with the oem Nak 5-channel amp - I would guess it's about 50x4, 80x1 rms into 4 ohms, if that - and I have found midbass drivers by Boston, Kicker, Pyle and a few others - anybody got any recommendations for this particular kind of speaker? I've had Boston and like them, but their 4" component mid is $$$ -

Also, I have a set of Boston 5-1/4" 2-ways from a previous car - I am going to disable the tweeters and replace the 4" oems in the doors with these (I like the oem tweets high up in the doors) but don't want to modify the mounts to put in bigger rear fills. The enclosures in the doors look easier to modify.

Now, the sub. I like the speaker, it hits hard but not too much (I'm a non-young dude who listens to jazz, don't need or want big thump), but it's a free-air speaker so it has a pretty stiff edge for better centering and transient response, since it doesn't get that help from a box, and so it needs plenty of power - which the sub section of this oem Nak amp ain't got. It doesn't produce good spl's at moderate listening levels (a sure sign of not enough headroom) so I am running the bass on the head unit almost all the way up, and can easily clip the amp at higher volumes. And even full bass boost isn't enough at freeway speeds. So I want to bypass the sub section of the oem amp and get a mono sub amp of about 200 watts rms with good controls for tuning the sub, and variable input sensitivity since I don't know the output level the head unit's sub channel. I know I will have to pull a new power lead for this amp.

I'm an old hifi hound and have been putting systems together for years, but have been driving company cars for quite a while prior to getting the SC, so I'm a little out of the loop on the wide world of car audio - any help from you all would be mucho appreciated!

Percy

You'll get LOTS of recommendations but the most important thing is to ask yourself one question...

What's your system goal?

There are alot of speakers that would be considered mid end and entry level. Very few would be considered to be REALLY geared towards Sound Quality. Many will CLAIM to have both SPL (boom factor) and SQ (sound quality) but the two rarely go hand in hand. Pretty much one or the other.

So are you after a good system, ultimate SQ or better than a "good" system?

Percy

strongsail

Thanks for your response, Percy.

I guess I would say my system goal is "better than what I have now" - I know that's pretty vague - but as a long-time home stereo enthusiast I would have to say my desire is more toward SQ than SPL. But realistically, trying to get good SQ at freeway speeds is pretty tough.

I don't want to eat up any trunk space (golf clubs) so I replaced the stock sub with a free-air unit in the oem location. I know that limits my low-frequency options, but I think this sub will give me what I want with more power behind it.

A local hi-fi chain is having a clearance sale this weekend - they have the Rockford Fosgate 200M mono amp for $169, and the 250M for $199. I see this brand everywhere, but have no experience with it. I don't know if the 200 and 250 watt ratings on these units are rms or peak. Any good? Good price? Y'got me.

pcmw

strongsail,

Here is the story, I am telling. Not necessarily the best way, cheapest way, or only way...just the MW way.

The per watt sensitivity of the rears replacement speakers is probably too high. Hence they put out too much sound for low wattage. On the flip size, in my experience, the fronts OEM speakers are horrible. They dribble out sound even with adequate wattage.

I am not a rear fill person, so I say un plug them. If you must have them, solder on some resistors to raise the OHMs and hence lower the power to them.

Subwoofer: Running more wattage will help out, and either fosgate will do fine. However, with an external amplifier, you will have non-linear volume control from the factory ****. Meaning, the sub amp may produce more or less (most likely less) sound per turn of the know than the factory amp would. This is caused by two things, one is that the factory unit puts out a very low level signal (at least on the pioneer), and two, the factory amps efficiency is different.

MY real suggestion is to ditch the door speakers in favor of a nice component set to install back into the factory locations. I went with JL XR's but Boston Pros and MB Quarts are both decent. Then get a nice amp to run the whole gamut and you will have a system worth the jazz. If you did a nice 4 channel Amp with new fronts, you would invest about $600 to complete the project.

MW

strongsail

I have read posts before (maybe yours, pcmw) on the rear fills being a hindrance rather than a help, and may well try the system without them - -

once I hook up the amp I just bought and put those Bostons in the doors.

I went out to that clearance sale and got myself an Xtant 202M power amp. It's a 2-channel amp that will run 200w rms bridged mono into 4 ohms, and will take up to 17v of input, so I will run it with the speaker output of the nak sub amp. It looks pretty adjustable and its input will be thru the stock amp, so I think I will be able to match levels pretty well.

I don't know Xtant from Adam, but it looked like it was one of the higher-end lines in the shop. Got any opinions on the brand? Tell me it's crap, now that I bought it

It's last year's model, not a refurb, $200.

If I have stumbled into some sweet deal here (msrp reportedly $400) let me know how lucky I am and I will let you know where I got it - they have 40 more in stock -

pcmw

Xtant is a decent amp.

$200 is a bit much...but a good deal if it fits your situation.

Putting the 5 1/4"s in the door is not worth the work. I would buy a decent set of separates to mount in the door.

MW

strongsail

pcmw, so you're saying just get a good 4" component set fpr the doors and not go any bigger in size? I'd rather not cut up the enclosures if I can get a noticable improvement with another 4" speaker there.

pcmw

I say go 5.25 at least..

No need to really cut the stock baffles... just pull them out.. store them in the closet... and replace them with 3/4" or 1/2" MDF. Really easy to do.

4" will not give you a true midrange/midbass feeling..

Although... a set of boston pro 4.1s will sound 10x the oems

If you installed the 5.25 in the rear and used them to aid your midbass... it may work thou... however it will cause some phase distortion and time issues from the bounce off the back glass.

I say do it all and do it once... no duct tape.

MW

lex400sc

Good 4"s in the doors will be a noticeable improvement (in power handling at least), but 6.5"s in the door will be where you hear biggest difference. You can get your midrange to extend as low as 40Hz with 6.5" drivers.

strongsail

aw ****, now I gotta start over.

Oh wait, here's a tube of black silicone - -