View Poll Results: Do you think Lexus should have paid the entire cost of the repair?
Yes they should pay 100% -this was a design defect
83
62.88%
No - Offering to pay 50% was fair
36
27.27%
No-they should not pay anything, the car was out of warranty--too bad
13
9.85%
Voters: 132. You may not vote on this poll
My Lexus nightmare
#61
Lexus Fanatic
So it's a design defect. Many cars have "design defects" that result in many more repairs than most Lexus cars, and the standard warranties do not cover them.
As I mentioned earlier from actual experience (a couple of real examples with design defects):
Porsche - they paid 50% of the total cost to replace top mechanism with bad design.
Mercedes - they paid 0% for failed brake light assembly, a known bad design.
So I think Lexus (and Porsche in my example) covering 50% is good.
As I mentioned earlier from actual experience (a couple of real examples with design defects):
Porsche - they paid 50% of the total cost to replace top mechanism with bad design.
Mercedes - they paid 0% for failed brake light assembly, a known bad design.
So I think Lexus (and Porsche in my example) covering 50% is good.
#62
Lexus Fanatic
But the easier check is to glance underneath for the usual small puddle of water where the AC normally drains on the ground. Often I see that water as I walk up to the car. It's not like I'm sticking my head under the car.
#63
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
A/C drain design failure? Lexus is fixing it for free under standard warranty, so I'm a bit confused why they're not just fixing it period. If you worked in a traveling job and put 70k on the car in two years, then it fails, is it your fault the design was defective? It's not like the failures are mileage related, they're humidity related. Are we owners or beta testers?
Whomever told you the gearbox had to come down lied 100%. Review the LSB - there's nothing about dropping the gearbox to fix this. Yes, the whole dash comes out and you'll be draining the coolant, depressurizing the A/C system, and removing the entire HVAC control unit, but you won't be dropping the gearbox.
When I first saw this LSB, it just made me all the happier I traded my 350 for the F. I could definitely envision this happening to me after the warranty expired. And I surely didn't want to go through yet another iteration of noisy cam sprockets either.
Whomever told you the gearbox had to come down lied 100%. Review the LSB - there's nothing about dropping the gearbox to fix this. Yes, the whole dash comes out and you'll be draining the coolant, depressurizing the A/C system, and removing the entire HVAC control unit, but you won't be dropping the gearbox.
When I first saw this LSB, it just made me all the happier I traded my 350 for the F. I could definitely envision this happening to me after the warranty expired. And I surely didn't want to go through yet another iteration of noisy cam sprockets either.
#64
Pole Position
Thread Starter
So it's a design defect. Many cars have "design defects" that result in many more repairs than most Lexus cars, and the standard warranties do not cover them.
As I mentioned earlier from actual experience (a couple of real examples with design defects):
Porsche - they paid 50% of the total cost to replace top mechanism with bad design.
Mercedes - they paid 0% for failed brake light assembly, a known bad design.
So I think Lexus (and Porsche in my example) covering 50% is good.
As I mentioned earlier from actual experience (a couple of real examples with design defects):
Porsche - they paid 50% of the total cost to replace top mechanism with bad design.
Mercedes - they paid 0% for failed brake light assembly, a known bad design.
So I think Lexus (and Porsche in my example) covering 50% is good.
#65
Lexus Fanatic
If that floats your boat, cool. Good luck. And try not to let 1/2 gallon of water accumulate in your car before taking action next time, the smell alone can be annoying.
#66
I agree with the OP.
Furthermore, after reading the TSIB for this issue, I believe this should be a voluntary recall for the affected VIN's, or (at the very least) the TSIB should be in effect past the factory warranty period.
This is a known defect, and the owner shouldn't be punished because they are slightly beyond the warranty period. I'm sure if the OP knew this issue was essentially a ticking time bomb he probably would have bought an extended warranty and/or traded the vehicle in.
We all know that random mechanical failures happen, but there's a huge difference between saying 0.5% of transmissions will randomly fail within 10 years, and a company knowing about a design defect but choosing not to deal with it unless it happens to fall within the warranty period. That's not good customer service, and Lexus is better then that.
Do I think Lexus is legally right? Yes because they put out a TSIB for the issue, and said they will do the repair work for free if it falls within the warranty period. Do I think they are morally right and/or providing good customer service? No.
Furthermore, after reading the TSIB for this issue, I believe this should be a voluntary recall for the affected VIN's, or (at the very least) the TSIB should be in effect past the factory warranty period.
This is a known defect, and the owner shouldn't be punished because they are slightly beyond the warranty period. I'm sure if the OP knew this issue was essentially a ticking time bomb he probably would have bought an extended warranty and/or traded the vehicle in.
We all know that random mechanical failures happen, but there's a huge difference between saying 0.5% of transmissions will randomly fail within 10 years, and a company knowing about a design defect but choosing not to deal with it unless it happens to fall within the warranty period. That's not good customer service, and Lexus is better then that.
Do I think Lexus is legally right? Yes because they put out a TSIB for the issue, and said they will do the repair work for free if it falls within the warranty period. Do I think they are morally right and/or providing good customer service? No.
#67
Lexus Champion
A/C drain design failure? Lexus is fixing it for free under standard warranty, so I'm a bit confused why they're not just fixing it period. If you worked in a traveling job and put 70k on the car in two years, then it fails, is it your fault the design was defective? It's not like the failures are mileage related, they're humidity related. Are we owners or beta testers?
Whomever told you the gearbox had to come down lied 100%. Review the LSB - there's nothing about dropping the gearbox to fix this. Yes, the whole dash comes out and you'll be draining the coolant, depressurizing the A/C system, and removing the entire HVAC control unit, but you won't be dropping the gearbox.
When I first saw this LSB, it just made me all the happier I traded my 350 for the F. I could definitely envision this happening to me after the warranty expired. And I surely didn't want to go through yet another iteration of noisy cam sprockets either.
Whomever told you the gearbox had to come down lied 100%. Review the LSB - there's nothing about dropping the gearbox to fix this. Yes, the whole dash comes out and you'll be draining the coolant, depressurizing the A/C system, and removing the entire HVAC control unit, but you won't be dropping the gearbox.
When I first saw this LSB, it just made me all the happier I traded my 350 for the F. I could definitely envision this happening to me after the warranty expired. And I surely didn't want to go through yet another iteration of noisy cam sprockets either.
The warranty is YRS/MILES, whichever comes first for a reason. It's a calculated gamble by the consumer and the company. If there is truly a "design defect", it is most likely that the problem will appear within the warranty period--whether it's miles or years. When a problem does appear frequently, and is known by the company, they may issue a TSB, have a recall or extend the warranty for the known problem. Acura had lots of tranny problems on TLs, and extended the warranty--but if your transmission went bad after the extension, you are still SOL.
Sometimes, things just happen. The car company isn't responsible for everything that might go wrong with the car for life.
#68
---get this, I let lexus replace my windshield since insurance was picking up the tab and it was just under $1500. The GS which they quoted me initially was $1700. They sent the car to guardian glass since they don't do it in house and I called guardian directly and they would have charged me the price of $370.--- Stealership for sure!
windshield moulding: $24.84
2 roof drip moulding: $146.22
glass: $913.23
6 windshield clips: $38.16
labor: $240.00
tax: $98.21
BTW it is OE glass with a sticker on the outside that says MADE IN JAPAN.
Not to mention a loaner 09 IS had the same glass on it as my replacement.
So there is no way in hell that $370 is for OE
#70
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (4)
A/C drain design failure? Lexus is fixing it for free under standard warranty, so I'm a bit confused why they're not just fixing it period. If you worked in a traveling job and put 70k on the car in two years, then it fails, is it your fault the design was defective? It's not like the failures are mileage related, they're humidity related. Are we owners or beta testers?
Whomever told you the gearbox had to come down lied 100%. Review the LSB - there's nothing about dropping the gearbox to fix this. Yes, the whole dash comes out and you'll be draining the coolant, depressurizing the A/C system, and removing the entire HVAC control unit, but you won't be dropping the gearbox.
When I first saw this LSB, it just made me all the happier I traded my 350 for the F. I could definitely envision this happening to me after the warranty expired. And I surely didn't want to go through yet another iteration of noisy cam sprockets either.
Whomever told you the gearbox had to come down lied 100%. Review the LSB - there's nothing about dropping the gearbox to fix this. Yes, the whole dash comes out and you'll be draining the coolant, depressurizing the A/C system, and removing the entire HVAC control unit, but you won't be dropping the gearbox.
When I first saw this LSB, it just made me all the happier I traded my 350 for the F. I could definitely envision this happening to me after the warranty expired. And I surely didn't want to go through yet another iteration of noisy cam sprockets either.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 09-24-09 at 10:38 PM.
#71
Pole Position
Thread Starter
I use weathertech floor mats in the car, which pretty much covers most of the carpeting. The weathertech mats stayed dry, but the carpeting and the padding soaked up the water when it backed up. The carpet can hold quite a bit of water. Other than the "sloshing" sound, there is is no way I would have known that water was backing up into the interior of the car. For what its worth, there was no odor either.
#72
Also, one other point.... readers of this thread should take the time to look up their VIN on the TSB in this thread - Page 2. I had never heard of this TSB and other people might have also missed it in posts on this forum.
#73
I don't think it matters if your VIN is affected by the TSB. People have mentioned that dealerships won't bother fixing it unless you are experiencing the problem. Most dealerships will keep your car for a day and say that they couldn't replicate the problem. The only thing you can do is periodically check for puddles OR pour some water on the floor and show them the TSB.
#74
Lexus Fanatic
And for those that buy the BMW over the Lexus, often they will buy an extended warranty that will cost plenty too.
#75
Lexus Fanatic
I use weathertech floor mats in the car, which pretty much covers most of the carpeting. The weathertech mats stayed dry, but the carpeting and the padding soaked up the water when it backed up. The carpet can hold quite a bit of water. Other than the "sloshing" sound, there is is no way I would have known that water was backing up into the interior of the car. For what its worth, there was no odor either.
I happen to use carpet mats in mine because I have an older SUV for the few weeks per year of bad weather driving that we experience here.
Last edited by IS-SV; 09-24-09 at 09:55 PM. Reason: spelling