diablo1

From my understanding based on Lexus marketing materials and comments on this forum and other places, the IS and the ES are Lexus's two entry-level luxury sedans. The ES places the emphasis on luxury with a bit more practicality, such as having larger rear seats. The IS puts a more sport/performance spin on it.

In general, this sounds like a great idea. Divide the entry luxury market into two segments, one that cares more about sport/performance and one that cares more about luxury, and then offer a car that caters to each group. However, I really think they messed up some of the specs when they were implementing this plan. Here's what I mean:

In some ways, the ES330 has better performance than the IS250
According to the Lexus website, the ES comes with a 3.3 liter, 218 hp V6 that makes 236 lb-ft torque. It does 0-60 in 7.2 seconds. The "sporty" IS250, on the other hand, has a 2.5 liter, 204 hp V6 good for 185 lb-ft torque. It does 0-60 in 7.9 or 8.3 seconds depending on drivetrain.

In some ways, the IS250/350 is more "luxurious" than the ES330
I'm sure there are several examples of this, but one that comes to mind is the stock stereo - 13 speakers in the IS vs. 7 (or maybe 6?) in the ES. Another is the backup camera in the IS, not offered in the ES.

Some of the luxury features in the IS that aren't in the ES are probably just a function of the IS being newer, and will be added to the ES once the model is refreshed. But if you're going to make a sporty and a luxury version of an otherwise similar car (small to mid entry luxury sedan), shouldn't you actually make the sporty version faster and more powerful than the luxury version?

Just wondering if anyone else had thought of this and what you make of it.

TimboIS

The "current" ES model is 3-4 years old. Of course every time Lexus comes out with a new model there will be some leapfrogging. I'm sure the next ES will have features that will outshine the new IS.

MatadorIS

I think the new ES will be out sometime next year as a 2007 model.

LexusChris

iTrader: (1)

This is similar to what has happened with the new GS, it doesn't have the AUX input and sixth generation navigation system. Also there will be a new Lexus ES coming in 2007 so it will likely have even more luxury features.

spwolf

I dont see what is the problem at all. ES is not an performance sedan. It is an FWD barge, and pretty nice one at that. It could do 0-60 in 4 sec, it still would not be sports sedan. Upcoming ES350 will be even faster than IS250, so what? I doubt anyone could mistake the two for one second...

PhilipMSPT

iTrader: (5)

Lexus has stated that both the IS and ES are their Entry-Level luxury cars.

However, what differentiates them is that the IS is for performance (hence the smaller space) and that the ES is for comfort (hence the bigger space). MY OPINION: The IS250 will be discontinued in a couple of years. The IS250 was used to attract potention luxury car buyers into the Lexus brand, as some fully-equipped cars such as the Camry or Accord cost the same. When the ES gets redesigned, it will probably have the same engine as the IS350, but will function differently.

If the ES gets a new engine (the 3.5L one the new IS has, and perhaps a hybrid one as well), it will provide more performance, but will still be based/built for comfort, not performance. The ES will still be plush and quiet and smooth, whereas the IS will provide faster and more rigid performance.

The ES and IS are two very different cars. They provide Lexus with the ability to provide two different populations with two excellent choices for Entry-Level luxury.

diablo1

If you buy the "sporty" version of a similarly priced sedan from the same company, you should not get beaten at a stoplight by the "luxury" version. Especially when the luxury version, like people said, is 3-4 years old, and your car is two months old with a brand-new engine.

LeslieRC

Good and intelligent observations. Thanks for your input; I hadn't thought about this comparison.

Gojirra99

Not necessarily, the IS250 will still drive more sporty than the ES even with less power, it's the more sporty driving dynamics that distinguish the IS as the sportier model primarily, not hp. BMW sells mostly 325's, & they sell 320's in the rest of the world,but they can lose to a Camry in a drag race. Being a sports sedan doesn't mean it has to be faster or more powerful than more luxurious models. The miata is one of the sportiest & funnest car to drive & loved by many enthusiasts, yet it's not that fast
They give you a choice, if you want it to be more sporty AND faster than the ES, get the IS350.

Toyota_F1

iTrader: (1)

The '07 ES will be the ES350 and 1st arrivals into port should be around 03/24 from what I've seen, likely being floored by 2-3 weeks after that.... From what I've heard it will have an engine more derivitave of the 3.5 in the Avalon with a similar output, it won't be encroaching on IS350 territory. RX is also set to go to RX350 with dealer arrivals pegged around March 1.... Also the GS450h has a tentative port date around March 1 and should be in showrooms around mid to late March.

IS250 is still a sportier DRIVE regardless of HP or 0-60 times. An MR2 Spyder had a tested 0-60 around 8 seconds, but it's still a much sportier car than the ES. Stop light drags aren't the only thing that makes a car sporty... how much of that speed will get scrubbed off in the corners in the ES that you will carry through with the IS250. And the ES luxury issues will likely be remedied when that full redesign ES350 drops in spring.

encore888

The ES right now is more 'plush' than the New IS. I think a key difference is room. Both cars are refined with Lexus luxury details, but the ES is much more LS-like and the IS seems to follow the GS' sporty vein.

jlin101

to begin with, the IS is RWD or AWD, vs the ES's FWD (FWD can be tuned for handling, such as RSX or TL, but not in ES's case); IS can be equipped with 18" wheel/summer tire, with sport suspension, more supportive seats, tighter handling and u-turn, etc.