Post dyno results (JOEZ exhaust + JOEZ intake + Tom's air filter) = NO POWER GAIN!!!!
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I have no reason to believe that I have any issues with my car, as it runs strong and well since brand new, not to mention good stock baseline dyno numbers. If we were dealing with any issues, the stock baseline numbers would be off, which they are not, and/or a check engine light. The PCM calibrations may be different for 09 cars, but I do not know of any changes that have been publicized. Carlos, the car was dynoed stock, then with the JOEZ exhaust + JOEZ intake + Tom's air filter, which is dry and has no oil. The car was then dynoed again with the OEM air filter, and mods mentioned above. For the baseline dyno session, the car had around 2.400 miles, the second dyno session after mods around 2.700 miles, and the third dyno session it had around 3.200 miles. I never sprayed silicon in my engine compartment, all that I have is JOEZ's own intake pipe, and no silicone was applied to the O2 sensor threads.
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.... It is the opinion of the dyno owner and operator that there could not have been a "fluke" in the dyno during my three separate visits, and a total of 10 runs, as he uses it frequently to tune and dyno cars. The calibration, correction factor, and machine have remained the same.
It is however my opinion that a recheck of your base numbers might be very surprising to us..
333 Rwhp is a solid number that has been repeated several times by several different IS-F's, on different Dynojets and even in different states..
You have already seen our R&D IS-F base numbers..
You can this Bone Stock 2010 IS-F with low miles
Also, you can see below, "Automobile Magazines" independent test of a 2008 IS-F in Salinas, Ca
The point is Same Dyno's can also read very differently on different days, weeks, months, etc....
If it turns out to be a "dyno fluke", do we blame the dyno shop??
The answer is No...
It will just be documentated as another reason why SAE corrected today, doesn't mean that SAE corrected 6 weeks later, will be the same thing.
Density Altitude on a particular day makes a Big difference.
I hope for the sake of our sanity, it turns out to be a dyno issue..
Otherwise it can be very possible that it's your IS-F. (maybe AFR Sensors ?)
Also, this will give us the opportunity to properly align those exhaust flanges.. I thought in my mind (after this last redyno) that because they are a bit off and not centered it might be the cause of this..
But we will be eliminating that possibility as well..
~ Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 11-07-10 at 12:02 AM.
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I completely understand his opinion...
It is however my opinion that a recheck of your base numbers might be very surprising to us..
333 Rwhp is a solid number that has been repeated several times by several different IS-F's, on different Dynojets and even in different states..
You have already seen our R&D IS-F base numbers..
You can this Bone Stock 2010 IS-F with low miles
Also, you can see below, "Automobile Magazines" independent test of a 2008 IS-F in Salinas, Ca
The point is Same Dyno's can also read very differently on different days, weeks, months, etc....
If it turns out to be a "dyno fluke", do we blame the dyno shop??
The answer is No...
It will just be documentated as another reason why SAE corrected today, doesn't mean that SAE corrected 6 weeks later, will be the same thing.
Density Altitude on a particular day makes a Big difference.
I hope for the sake of our sanity, it turns out to be a dyno issue..
Otherwise it can be very possible that it's your IS-F. (maybe AFR Sensors ?)
Also, this will give us the opportunity to properly align those exhaust flanges.. I thought in my mind (after this last redyno) that because they are a bit off and not centered it might be the cause of this..
But we will be eliminating that possibility as well..
~ Joe Z
It is however my opinion that a recheck of your base numbers might be very surprising to us..
333 Rwhp is a solid number that has been repeated several times by several different IS-F's, on different Dynojets and even in different states..
You have already seen our R&D IS-F base numbers..
You can this Bone Stock 2010 IS-F with low miles
Also, you can see below, "Automobile Magazines" independent test of a 2008 IS-F in Salinas, Ca
The point is Same Dyno's can also read very differently on different days, weeks, months, etc....
If it turns out to be a "dyno fluke", do we blame the dyno shop??
The answer is No...
It will just be documentated as another reason why SAE corrected today, doesn't mean that SAE corrected 6 weeks later, will be the same thing.
Density Altitude on a particular day makes a Big difference.
I hope for the sake of our sanity, it turns out to be a dyno issue..
Otherwise it can be very possible that it's your IS-F. (maybe AFR Sensors ?)
Also, this will give us the opportunity to properly align those exhaust flanges.. I thought in my mind (after this last redyno) that because they are a bit off and not centered it might be the cause of this..
But we will be eliminating that possibility as well..
~ Joe Z
Last edited by ISFC6; 11-07-10 at 12:44 AM.
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I just finished pulling / calculating all the Density Altitude numbers for your Dyno days...
Will examine more tomorrow..
9/11/10
Density Altitude: 2829 feet
Relative Density: 91.98 %
10/22/10
Density Altitude: 1676 feet
Relative Density: 95.19 %
11/03/10
Density Altitude: 1884 feet
Relative Density: 94.6 %
Joe Z
Will examine more tomorrow..
9/11/10
Density Altitude: 2829 feet
Relative Density: 91.98 %
10/22/10
Density Altitude: 1676 feet
Relative Density: 95.19 %
11/03/10
Density Altitude: 1884 feet
Relative Density: 94.6 %
Joe Z
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Joe, can't we just get all of the necessary date from the dyno shop, based upon the days I that I was there? Please let me know wha the plans will be for this coming weekend. Thanks.
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James,
The Dyno shop doesn't provide or calculate the Density Altitude data.
The numbers in my post are calculated based on dates and times that you were at the dyno shop in Fresno, Ca..
So far it looks like I will be there bright & early Saturday morning..
(details to follow, as usual)
Joe Z
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OMG....seriously ???
all this back and forth over like +/- 10-15HP, that u arent going to feel anyways??
or is it the principle of the claimed gains vs. the reason you bought it at this point?
Lexus spent a lot of time squeezing 416 out of the engine. If the exhaust sounds good , then call it a day.
Fact is most of these intakes are going to do nothing or lose HP (suckin in hot air from under the hood)
and the exhaust will be good for meaner sound, but across the boards in the big picture thats about it.
If u wanna see gains...buy a supra and bolt on...or buy a turbo or NOS kit,
other than that with this car , the 350 or 250 ---the gains are found by buying the next IS up the line.....and we are all at the end of it. got a 250 and want more power...buy a 350...got a 350 and want more power ...U guessed it- Buy an F, got an F and want to see the dyno move...buy some NOS....cause spending near / over $2K for intakes & exhausts/install to get like 12HP on a MAYBE - is kinda... well u know its your car and your $$ but Im not surprised that you're not seeing anything change. Joe Z is definitely going all out to stand behind his product and that is to be commended.
but if all you are getting is a meaner sound from the mods...then I say - Good job!...cause thats usually all these little intake tubes, and exhausts are good for anyways unless you have a car that is known for sure to respond to bolt ons - no offense. (like the Toyota Supra)
I guess Im more into winning and beatin someone in my F than I am about dyno numbers....the dyno isnt going to put your car in front.
But having said that---this is a interesting topic for those very curious of the outcome...so in that its worth it.
all this back and forth over like +/- 10-15HP, that u arent going to feel anyways??
or is it the principle of the claimed gains vs. the reason you bought it at this point?
Lexus spent a lot of time squeezing 416 out of the engine. If the exhaust sounds good , then call it a day.
Fact is most of these intakes are going to do nothing or lose HP (suckin in hot air from under the hood)
and the exhaust will be good for meaner sound, but across the boards in the big picture thats about it.
If u wanna see gains...buy a supra and bolt on...or buy a turbo or NOS kit,
other than that with this car , the 350 or 250 ---the gains are found by buying the next IS up the line.....and we are all at the end of it. got a 250 and want more power...buy a 350...got a 350 and want more power ...U guessed it- Buy an F, got an F and want to see the dyno move...buy some NOS....cause spending near / over $2K for intakes & exhausts/install to get like 12HP on a MAYBE - is kinda... well u know its your car and your $$ but Im not surprised that you're not seeing anything change. Joe Z is definitely going all out to stand behind his product and that is to be commended.
but if all you are getting is a meaner sound from the mods...then I say - Good job!...cause thats usually all these little intake tubes, and exhausts are good for anyways unless you have a car that is known for sure to respond to bolt ons - no offense. (like the Toyota Supra)
I guess Im more into winning and beatin someone in my F than I am about dyno numbers....the dyno isnt going to put your car in front.
But having said that---this is a interesting topic for those very curious of the outcome...so in that its worth it.
#115
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OMG....seriously ???
all this back and forth over like +/- 10-15HP, that u arent going to feel anyways??
or is it the principle of the claimed gains vs. the reason you bought it at this point?
Lexus spent a lot of time squeezing 416 out of the engine. If the exhaust sounds good , then call it a day.
Fact is most of these intakes are going to do nothing or lose HP (suckin in hot air from under the hood)
and the exhaust will be good for meaner sound, but across the boards in the big picture thats about it.
If u wanna see gains...buy a supra and bolt on...or buy a turbo or NOS kit,
other than that with this car , the 350 or 250 ---the gains are found by buying the next IS up the line.....and we are all at the end of it. got a 250 and want more power...buy a 350...got a 350 and want more power ...U guessed it- Buy an F, got an F and want to see the dyno move...buy some NOS....cause spending near / over $2K for intakes & exhausts/install to get like 12HP on a MAYBE - is kinda... well u know its your car and your $$ but Im not surprised that you're not seeing anything change. Joe Z is definitely going all out to stand behind his product and that is to be commended.
but if all you are getting is a meaner sound from the mods...then I say - Good job!...cause thats usually all these little intake tubes, and exhausts are good for anyways unless you have a car that is known for sure to respond to bolt ons - no offense. (like the Toyota Supra)
I guess Im more into winning and beatin someone in my F than I am about dyno numbers....the dyno isnt going to put your car in front.
But having said that---this is a interesting topic for those very curious of the outcome...so in that its worth it.
all this back and forth over like +/- 10-15HP, that u arent going to feel anyways??
or is it the principle of the claimed gains vs. the reason you bought it at this point?
Lexus spent a lot of time squeezing 416 out of the engine. If the exhaust sounds good , then call it a day.
Fact is most of these intakes are going to do nothing or lose HP (suckin in hot air from under the hood)
and the exhaust will be good for meaner sound, but across the boards in the big picture thats about it.
If u wanna see gains...buy a supra and bolt on...or buy a turbo or NOS kit,
other than that with this car , the 350 or 250 ---the gains are found by buying the next IS up the line.....and we are all at the end of it. got a 250 and want more power...buy a 350...got a 350 and want more power ...U guessed it- Buy an F, got an F and want to see the dyno move...buy some NOS....cause spending near / over $2K for intakes & exhausts/install to get like 12HP on a MAYBE - is kinda... well u know its your car and your $$ but Im not surprised that you're not seeing anything change. Joe Z is definitely going all out to stand behind his product and that is to be commended.
but if all you are getting is a meaner sound from the mods...then I say - Good job!...cause thats usually all these little intake tubes, and exhausts are good for anyways unless you have a car that is known for sure to respond to bolt ons - no offense. (like the Toyota Supra)
I guess Im more into winning and beatin someone in my F than I am about dyno numbers....the dyno isnt going to put your car in front.
But having said that---this is a interesting topic for those very curious of the outcome...so in that its worth it.
I originally gained with the JoeZ cat-back +23.34hp and +23.39tq as well as almost every other member of this forum who tested this exhaust. On top of the cat back, the SIKKY headers had been shown to give +49.5hp and +22.4tq on another members car. I was so skeptical about the headers when I decided to purchase them that I did a baseline and after pulls on two different dyno's. (dynapack/dynojet)
My Dynapack header results: +42.5hp and +21.4 tq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEpWtykBjI
My Dynojet header results: +39.5hp and +34.57tq
Because their is no tune available for the Lexus I did an air/fuel analysis and everything checked out perfectly. It appears the stock ECU is compensating nicely. See video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfrMUeP53lg
To top it all off, we had a dyno day back in September which included a stock IS-F and mine. The stock IS-F put down 330whp and I put down almost 390whp, which verifies my +60hp gains over stock with just a full exhaust replacement.
I would never have made it into the 11's without a full exhaust setup. The PTS JoeZ and SIKKY headers both make their advertised claims and it's just too bad the OP of this thread has had such bad luck with his dyno testing, but in the end I am certain he will see the gains are there. In my opinion it's impossible NOT to have any gains with the JoeZ exhaust or any exhaust modification compared to the OEM setup.
Last edited by caymandive; 11-09-10 at 04:19 AM.
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I know it's a digression from the main topic, but I believe for the sake of longevity that Lexus engineers had to curb the redline. In other words, this engine is capable of significantly more power. I've actually read somewhere that IF the GS-F is produced it will have a massaged version of this same 5.0L engine making close to 450+ hp (not the V10 on the LF-A).
#118
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I can tell you haven't had the F very long or know much about them at this point. For what you said about the IS350 is true, but the F is corked up beyond belief! A full exhaust Headers and Cat-back yield almost 60whp over stock! That my friend is gains you will certainly feel and hear and is not money down the drain.
I originally gained with the JoeZ cat-back +23.34hp and +23.39tq as well as almost every other member of this forum who tested this exhaust. On top of the cat back, the SIKKY headers had been shown to give +49.5hp and +22.4tq on another members car. I was so skeptical about the headers when I decided to purchase them that I did a baseline and after pulls on two different dyno's. (dynapack/dynojet)
My Dynapack header results: +42.5hp and +21.4 tq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEpWtykBjI
My Dynojet header results: +39.5hp and +34.57tq
Because their is no tune available for the Lexus I did an air/fuel analysis and everything checked out perfectly. It appears the stock ECU is compensating nicely. See video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfrMUeP53lg
To top it all off, we had a dyno day back in September which included a stock IS-F and mine. The stock IS-F put down 330whp and I put down almost 390whp, which verifies my +60hp gains over stock with just a full exhaust replacement.
I would never have made it into the 11's without a full exhaust setup. The PTS JoeZ and SIKKY headers both make their advertised claims and it's just too bad the OP of this thread has had such bad luck with his dyno testing, but in the end I am certain he will see the gains are there. In my opinion it's impossible NOT to have any gains with the JoeZ exhaust or any exhaust modification compared to the OEM setup.
I originally gained with the JoeZ cat-back +23.34hp and +23.39tq as well as almost every other member of this forum who tested this exhaust. On top of the cat back, the SIKKY headers had been shown to give +49.5hp and +22.4tq on another members car. I was so skeptical about the headers when I decided to purchase them that I did a baseline and after pulls on two different dyno's. (dynapack/dynojet)
My Dynapack header results: +42.5hp and +21.4 tq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejEpWtykBjI
My Dynojet header results: +39.5hp and +34.57tq
Because their is no tune available for the Lexus I did an air/fuel analysis and everything checked out perfectly. It appears the stock ECU is compensating nicely. See video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfrMUeP53lg
To top it all off, we had a dyno day back in September which included a stock IS-F and mine. The stock IS-F put down 330whp and I put down almost 390whp, which verifies my +60hp gains over stock with just a full exhaust replacement.
I would never have made it into the 11's without a full exhaust setup. The PTS JoeZ and SIKKY headers both make their advertised claims and it's just too bad the OP of this thread has had such bad luck with his dyno testing, but in the end I am certain he will see the gains are there. In my opinion it's impossible NOT to have any gains with the JoeZ exhaust or any exhaust modification compared to the OEM setup.
In the end, we will have conclusive data soon, and put this to rest, no mater what the results are. We are going to put my car to stock, dyno it, reinstall the modifications, and dyno it again, all within the same day and dyno. There will be no more conclusive data than this.
Last edited by ISFC6; 11-09-10 at 10:51 AM.
#119
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Thank you for the good wishes James. It appears that every ISF does react differently. I would have to disagree with your last comparison, as you are comparing another stock ISF dyno numbers to your own dyno numbers after modifications, so 2 different cars being compared, versus the same car stock to the same car modified. From my search, your car put down stock approximately 357 RWHP SAE on that same dyno, which is quite a bit more than this other stock ISF put down. I saw your subsequent dyno (same shop and dyno) with both the headers and full exhaust, and that came out to around 385 RWHP SAE, so a gain of around 28 RWHP SAE, when compared with your own stock dyno numbers, but this was with BOTH headers and PTS exhaust.
In the end, we will have conclusive data soon, and put this to rest, no mater what the results are. We are going to put my car to stock, dyno it, reinstall the modifications, and dyno it again, all within the same day and dyno. There will be no more conclusive data that this.
In the end, we will have conclusive data soon, and put this to rest, no mater what the results are. We are going to put my car to stock, dyno it, reinstall the modifications, and dyno it again, all within the same day and dyno. There will be no more conclusive data that this.
Now compare run file 28 above to 14 below. It looks like I had the same issue as you with ZERO gains with both the intake and exhaust. Was I happy about that? Heck no, but I knew it wasn't true. It's frustrating for sure and certainly not accurate when dyno testing on different days even with SAE correction and no other variables changed. Best of luck to you and others who run into this sort of situation, I can honestly sympathize, but you can be assured that the exhaust makes power no matter what the dyno may try to imply. To the OP and Joe, I think your plan ahead seems solid and I am certain you guys will finally see the results you have been looking for.
Last edited by caymandive; 11-09-10 at 10:59 AM.
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That is the reason that we will be conducting all of the testing in the same day and same dyno, both stock, and then with the JOEZ intake and JOEZ PTS exhaust, and all else stock to eliminate all other possible variables.
PS: All 3 of my dyno sessions were conducted within a 6-week period (due to the delay of logging miles after the initial modifications), but we will find out if that had a role in the results soon.
PS: All 3 of my dyno sessions were conducted within a 6-week period (due to the delay of logging miles after the initial modifications), but we will find out if that had a role in the results soon.
Last edited by ISFC6; 11-09-10 at 11:13 AM.