jkeifer3

I have made contact with an attorney that specializes in class action lawsuits on defective automobile products, etc. I will keep you posted as this progresses and may need specific information should you wish to be included in the class action.

Reciprocal

What specifically do you think Lexus should be doing? Recalling cars? Replacing wheels or brakes with a solution fix, or permanent lifetime replacement policy?

Just curious, because here's how the problem is affecting me. Basically, it's not affecting me because mine is too new, just 4,000 miles and I do keep them clean. So for the problem to appear, I would have to drive more and let them get dirty. Until that point, I have no claim for defect to make.

I don't doubt for a second that this problem is assuredly going to happen, but by following the advice of keeping the wheels clean, it gets delayed as long as possible which is in Lexus' interest to have us do this. Failing that, they have offered to repair or replace defective wheels, it's just the wording that we don't like, that states it's a one time only obligation from them. That is maddening for sure, but Lexus does not owe us NEW wheels and brakes to make us whole, because our wheels and brakes are not new at this time. We drive used cars.

So what is it exactly that we as class action litigants seek to make us whole? Wheels and brakes that meet usual and customary level of expectation for wear and performance, but what is that? Or are we just people that will never be satisfied with whatever is proposed? I have no interest in being a part of that either.

I think on one level, we accept a performance disclaimer as the price for having brakes that are race track capable. We've all seen the brake dust that pours off the wheels of a Nascar or Indy car during a pit stop, as the price for this level of performance.

Would we not be litigating the same claims for items like brake and tire wear if not for the disclaimer that we are told tire life may be substantially less than 15,000 miles for performance tires and brakes? Perhaps Lexus need only update their disclaimers to include wheel pitting as something to be expected from performance wheels and brakes on the IS-F? You cannot use the argument, that other manufacturers don't have this problem, even if they don't have this problem. It's what WE are informed of, in advance. We are not entitled to expect 350,000 mile engine life just because a Volvo or (fill in the blank) manages to, nor are we entitled to expect clean rims and huge stopping power just because a Corvette manages to, that is not if we are given the disclaimer up front.

Personally, I would be satisfied if Lexus did take a disclaimer on wheel pitting just like they do on tire and brake wear, if they would have done this in advance of purchasing the vehicle. Since they didn't what is it we expect is fair to make us whole?

I think if they agree to replace wheels for one time only, that's reasonable, and gives us an opportunity at that point to make a decision on the future of our car at that point. We could sell it with perfect wheels for what our used car is worth, being considered whole, and buy something with our equity that presumably does not have a wheel pitting problem. Or, accept that we have been forewarned after being made whole, if it happens now you were warned and had the opportunity to opt out of future ownership while still whole.

ni8done

Jesus I'm Dizzy after reading that.

UCrazyKid

Reciprocal: The last thing an angry mob armed with pitchforks and flaming torches wants to hear is the voice of reason. Everyone here is ready to "string up" Lexus for there crime against humanity (pitted wheels). Nobody wants to hear about reality at a time like this. So knock it off.

But seriously, you raise all the right points. I would like to see my car stay like new at the cost of the manufacturer as much as the next guy, but honestly feel it is extremely unlikely that there is any sort of case against Lexus.

There is no safety issues at stake here and Lexus is famous for how accommodating they are for their customers. Every time I read about someone on here that blows up their motor with a new throttle controler or some other aftermarket part, then takes it all off before going to the dealer for a "warranty" repair and actually gets it fixed at no charge sickens me.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Everyone? Speak for yourself. If the wheels pit from hot metal off the brakes where's the surprise? Put a set of Hawk Blues in ANYTHING and see what you get at track temperatures.

I couldn't care less about wheel pitting. It's not damaging the integrity of the wheel at all. Next thing you'll want is free repairs when rocks chip the finish on the wheels (yes, I have this on my wheels...)

Speed costs money. How fast can you afford to go?

AU_EE

Personally, I think this is a troll post, but WTH, I'll bite once as I certainly don't see "reason" in it...

Don't be so overdramatic. Nobody has said they want their car recalled. This is about wheels. Personally, I think they should replace them with a wheel that is durable enough to withstand normal usage. I'd accept refinishing if and only if they also have and provide alternative but comparable performing brakes that will not cause the same problem (i.e. if it's iron content causing the problem and they can make them with a harmless to the finish alternative). If they want to refinish and put ceramics on as someone proposed (and assuming "ceramic dust" doesn't ruin the finish too), I'm ok with that, but they should put the first set on and warranty the refinish as I bet it won't be as good as the "factory" finish. I'll pay for replacement pads after that, but if they can't make a wheel tough enough for those pads, it should have come with diff pads. If they can, it should have come with tougher wheels.

Whether a suit is necessary or not is [possibly? / hopefully?] still TBD. Certainly some people are not happy with the current response, and I won't be happy with a one time refinish either. Customary wear for wheels?!?? I can't believe you typed that. Wheels should be the last part of the car to wear out... I would easily believe 99+% of the cars that get turned into scrap metal and crushed into cubes at the end of their life are still on OEM rims that would still clean up nicely. Brakes are consumable. Windshield wipers are consumable. Oil... consumable. Wheels are not consumable, and should not "wear." Would the "wheel" vendors that frequent these pages expect their wheels to "wear? I doubt it. Anyone that has put aftermarket wheels, expensive or not, on their F had similar issues? What about 2/350 owners that have F brakes on their 18" OEMs?

I wash my F frequently, but I fully expect any car I buy, at any price, to have wheels that I can drive around on for 10s of thousands of miles accumulating brake dust, wash, and have them look like they did new, especially if I'm not warned otherwise in an owner's manual or similar, which in this case there is no such notice. When I bought it, my car had a sticker warning that the tires shouldn't be expected to last as long as "normal" tires. I would have never dreamed they would outlast the finish on the rims!

I fully accept, expected, and am ok with lots of brake dust and expensive pads that don't last as long as "normal" cars given I bought a performance car. I don't see how any of that has a thing to do with the durability of the finish on the rims. Have you washed a NASCAR or Indy rim after a race to see if it has been damaged by the brake dust? (I haven't either, but I'd bet they're fine, just dirty) No amount of brake dust should damage the finish. That is a design (finish) flaw.

BTW, I was told (but haven't confirmed) that some of the first G35s had a similar problem and Infiniti replaced those with new wheels that had a finish durable enough to last.

Oh, and let me not forget my co-worker with the Chrysler SRT/8 300 which also has performance brakes that make tons of dust like ours. He has several 10s of thousands of miles more on his than I do on mine (and harder miles too! He always drives hard), and his still look new after washing. Maybe I'm the one being unreasonable here, but I expect Lexus to have a better product than Chrysler. If it isn't going to be better, it should at least be as good

Come to think of it, my POS Dodge truck is a 2001, has ~65-70k miles on it, and except for a handful of cheap automatic car washes to get winter salt off of it, hasn't been washed (it's a truck; it hauls schtuff). I bet the (brushed aluminum) wheels on that would clean up nicely too!

I know of no disclaimer for brakes, wipers, etc., much less my wheels. They are excluded from warranty coverage (not the same thing), although the wheels are not, by my memory, excluded from the warranty. The tires had a disclaimer, but not to say they wear out (everyone knows that) but to say they wear out fast! (15k miles was it?) It's not a matter of disclaimer, these other items are known to be consumables. Again, wheels are NOT consumable (except these apparently).

WHAT?@? I sure as heck can make the argument that nearly every other car on the road (excluding the other Fs) has wheels that don't have this problem. We're not talking about one manufacturer that has figured out how to make them last... Lexus themselves have rims that last, just not on this car. And what exactly were we informed of regarding our wheels?? Again, engines have parts that wear and are consumed. Wheels don't.

And let me be perfectly clear on this since you seem to have not read the thread: We are NOT talking about expecting "clean rims." We're talking about damage to the finish that no amount of cleaning will restore.

That's a big IF. And I agree, if they'd had a disclaimer plastered all over them, I wouldn't be complaining either, nor would I have bought the car! But, they didn't.

I expect wheels that don't have this problem. They should last the life of the car. We're talking 5k miles showing significant damage! That's not near the end of the warranty even, it's practically new!

I disagree completely. I bought the car, fully willing to accept the rapid depreciation that comes with a new, niche car, because I intended to keep it for quite some time. Putting that kind of a single instant decision takes away all control I have in that. I either have to drive a car for many years with wheels that have a degrading finish, and replace them only when I'm ready to get rid of the car (not acceptable, I want it to look good the whole time I'm driving it) or I have to replace them soon and then pamper and fret over them constantly and probably still redevelop the problem. Being "forewarned" after you've made a purchase makes no sense...

AU_EE

So, if I ask ISS Forged or some other vendor on here if their wheels will be damaged if I use Hawk Blues for brake pads, what will they say?

I agree it's not integrity. Doesn't matter. Years ago my fathers Ford truck had paint (body) that faded / thinned prematurely. Didn't affect safety or integrity of the vehicle, but Ford recalled the affected vehicles.

I have a rock chip on mine (left front) as well. I accept that and wouldn't expect them to replace it (although I was disappointed), and I also tried to "clean" this pitting with something slightly more abrasive than I'd usually use and scratched a small "test" area. That's on me as well.

It may not bother you, but I expect better durability from something as simple as a wheel.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Any wheel manufacturer will tell you they have no finish warranty with Hawk Blue or any other high metal content pads. They'd be fools if they said anything else.

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brake...rack+Only+Pads

So the pads we have are high performance and spit out hot metal that melts the finish on the wheels. It's going to be true for any aggressive high metal content pad.

The last thing I'm going to complain about is pitting. One track weekend kills any claim I could have made.

AU_EE

If our OEM pads are that destructive to wheels, they definitely should have disclaimers, and they should have made a point of not warranting the OEM wheels, or at least the finish on them, which simply puts me back at... they didn't, and thus I hold them accountable.

And the tire rack quote simply makes me ask, if our pads are similar/comparable (enough to warrant similar disclaimers) is our car never supposed to be driven in the rain now? And how do you wash it then?

I also go back to Joe-Z commenting his (not OEM) wheels have held up well, even with some "abuse" (dunno, but probably includes getting them wet ), which to me implies it's not the brakes, but the wheels that are failing to meet requirements. I suspect others that have non-OEM wheels now would also say they have no problems using the OEM pads. (haven't heard any complaints from them)

It's also worth noting, this is a "trackable", mass production, street car, not strictly a "track" car.

jkeifer3

Thanks to "Caymandive" for the informative pictures and instructions and to Mike Jr., at Carbotech, I took the plunge and installed new ceramic front pads in about an hour for both front wheels. After I bed the pads, 5 or 6 stops from 60mph to 20mph in quick succession as recommended by Carbotech, I will wash and wax the wheels (and the pitting) and see what happens from here on out.

As to what Lexus should have done up front and should do now post problem, I'd expect them to "man up" and acknowledge it's an issue and not just a bunch of zealots who are nitpicking their design, and do a one-time replace of affected wheels AND provide a pad replacement with an alternative friction material.

It's really irritating that they are so arrogant as to say that it's an individual owner's shortcoming for not being endowed with knowledge upfront that the pads would cause corrosion unless cleaned after ever drive. Had there been disclaimers or warnings published in the owners manual, they could have saved themselves this sort of bad press and a slew of unhappy owners and I, for one, would acknowledge that it was an oversight on my part that contributed to the problem.

F BOMB

Learn energy management. Use that fancy, expensive transmission to your benefit. If you visit the track, there's not much you can do. But you speed demons on the public roads, go easy on the heavy breaking when you run out of open highway.

jkeifer3

That's funny! I suspect that if Lexus had an inkling (and I am sure the onboard computer can tell them) that you were using their expensive transmission for vehicle speed management they'd absolve themselves of any responsibility immediately saying, "How dare you use the transmission to save the brakes and wheels!" LOL. I guess I've "lost the faith".

primecut

iTrader: (1)

If it's hot metal particles that are damaging the finish, wouldn't that occur immediately upon contact? Why would it matter whether the particle is resting on the wheel for 1 day vs 10 days? By then the particles would cool off and the wheel wouldn't incur further damage, right?

Unless the particles themselves have some chemical composition that eats away at the finish, I'm not sure if I understand the cause and remedy of this issue.

jkeifer3

I suspect you may be right. The manufacturer of the replacement pads that I put on specifically stated that the dust from their compound was non-corrosive leading me to believe that other compounds are indeed corrosive. If, on the other hand, hot metal is the culprit, it may be because the hot metal begins the initial breakdown of the finish affording moisture, dirt, brake dust, etc., a chance to gain a foothold and begin the destructive process.

Jonsleeper

It must be the POS brake pads. Or the blk matte finish on the rims.