ISF vs new WRX STI
10-28-15, 09:31 AM
#17
Considering this is a 400 unit limited run and the regular car doesn't even have the same engine...what's the comparison?
It's still a rattly *** cheap Subaru, that you paid way too much for, on the inside anyway.
It's still a rattly *** cheap Subaru, that you paid way too much for, on the inside anyway.
10-28-15, 09:31 AM
#18
I'm not an ISF owner yet, but I am a 2012 WRX owner right now and I know way too much about these cars and modifying them. The new gen STI is quite a bit better than the prior gen WRX/STI, but it's still a souped up Impreza which sells for $23K. For the $35-40K you're paying on the STI, you're getting the go fast bits and improvements, but it's still an economy interior, and the exterior looks? A total failure on Subaru's part.
Then there's that motor in the STI. It's basically been around since 2004. The new STI has a slightly different turbo than the last gen which gives it a bit more power on the top end hence the reason it's a bit quicker than the STIs of the past (i.e., 13.1@104mph vs 13.5@101mph) and the 305hp rating is bit underrated (it's more like 325-330hp). Lastly, that motor (the EJ25) is not exactly reliable. It has issues with rod bearings and piston ringlands, especially if you add more power or throw the car into high G turns.
To make an STI reliable, especially if you plan to add power, you need to:
1) Buy a larger oil pan and replace the oil pickup ($600 total)
2) Replace the shortblock with a built one using forged pistons and beefier rod bearings ($5000-7000 installed including a brand new shortblock).
Do those mods and the STI will be happy living behind 400hp and will run mid to low 12s.
With that said, the 2011 ISF ran Road Tracks Lightning Lap in 3:05.3 whereas the 2015 STI did it in 3:10.5. 5 seconds is an eternity. The STI is extremely good for the price, but an ISF is in a different league.
Then there's that motor in the STI. It's basically been around since 2004. The new STI has a slightly different turbo than the last gen which gives it a bit more power on the top end hence the reason it's a bit quicker than the STIs of the past (i.e., 13.1@104mph vs 13.5@101mph) and the 305hp rating is bit underrated (it's more like 325-330hp). Lastly, that motor (the EJ25) is not exactly reliable. It has issues with rod bearings and piston ringlands, especially if you add more power or throw the car into high G turns.
To make an STI reliable, especially if you plan to add power, you need to:
1) Buy a larger oil pan and replace the oil pickup ($600 total)
2) Replace the shortblock with a built one using forged pistons and beefier rod bearings ($5000-7000 installed including a brand new shortblock).
Do those mods and the STI will be happy living behind 400hp and will run mid to low 12s.
With that said, the 2011 ISF ran Road Tracks Lightning Lap in 3:05.3 whereas the 2015 STI did it in 3:10.5. 5 seconds is an eternity. The STI is extremely good for the price, but an ISF is in a different league.
10-28-15, 02:25 PM
#19
Lexus Fanatic
The seats in the STI are a pain , literally and the car exudes that boy racer look . Also the STI has a basic interior and I dust them on track all the time. In fact I have video blowing by one on a long straight. I also found when I drove one that it rolled more than I would have expected. Steering felt great but that was it for me . Im a Lexus guy
10-29-15, 04:39 AM
#21
Lexus Champion
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Aventura, Florida
Posts: 2,148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would you buy a car that you know is going to have catastrophic failure no matter what you do to it?
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...ti-owners.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1632634
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...ti-owners.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1632634
10-29-15, 09:35 AM
#22
Why would you buy a car that you know is going to have catastrophic failure no matter what you do to it?
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...ti-owners.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1632634
http://www.iwsti.com/forums/2-5-lite...ti-owners.html
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1632634
The problem with these motors is that they're already pushed hard from the start. They're pushing 120-125hp per liter. The ISF is only pushing a mere 83hp per liter. I highly doubt the ISF would live long behind 125hp/liter.
WRX/STI owners then add a basic tune which easily adds around 25-30whp and 40-50wtq right smack dab in the meat of the powerband. Now the motor is pushing more like 135hp/liter. Amazingly, these motors seem to do fine with a basic/conservative stage 1 tune. A 09+ stage 1 WRX/STI will easily run low low 13s at 103-105mph with 0-60 in the lower 4s. The real issue is when people start getting greedy with the power. Add a downpipe and an ethanol tune and now you're talking about 350+whp/twq and easily a mid-12 car for around $2,000 in parts/tuning. The problem is the motor usually won't live long behind that power. However, swap in a new shortblock with forged pistons and bearings and you could have yourself an 11 second WRX for a mere $35K including the price of a new base model WRX. I can't think of a single car on the market that offers that type of potential performance, usability, and all weather capability for so little money.
10-29-15, 09:40 AM
#23
Really not surprising. They're not topend cars. They're all about the launch and sub 80mph point-shoot capability. A stage 2 WRX/STI (tune and downpipe) is only going to trap the 1/4 mile in the 104-107mph range. An ISF is doing 110-113mph. That's a huge difference. From a stop though? You best be one hell of a driver because chances are the WRX will leave you at the light up to 70mph or worse. My 2012 WRX only as a tune and I have yet to find a well driven 2WD car that can hang from 0-70mph on the street. I've always got traction whereas they don't. I rev up to 4500-5000rpm, slip the clutch a bit, and then let it rip. No launch drama at all and crazy consistent.
10-29-15, 01:25 PM
#24
Really not surprising. They're not topend cars. They're all about the launch and sub 80mph point-shoot capability. A stage 2 WRX/STI (tune and downpipe) is only going to trap the 1/4 mile in the 104-107mph range. An ISF is doing 110-113mph. That's a huge difference. From a stop though? You best be one hell of a driver because chances are the WRX will leave you at the light up to 70mph or worse. My 2012 WRX only as a tune and I have yet to find a well driven 2WD car that can hang from 0-70mph on the street. I've always got traction whereas they don't. I rev up to 4500-5000rpm, slip the clutch a bit, and then let it rip. No launch drama at all and crazy consistent.
10-31-15, 09:58 AM
#26
You don't have to. You can pick them up for $34-36K. The Golf R and upcoming Focus RS are in the same price range. The Golf R and STI offer the same performance though each one goes about doing it in a slightly different way. I wouldn't touch a VW product with a ten-foot pole right now unless you want to loose a mountain of money on depreciation thanks to Dieselgate. The performance of the Focus RS waits to be seen. They're claiming upper 4 second 0-60 which would put the 1/4 mile performance right in line with STI and Golf R. The RS rear differential cannot (ECU actually limits it) any additional power so tuners with have to get crafty with tuning options because any gained power has to be directed to the front which will compromise handling.
11-01-15, 03:30 AM
#28
WRX STi is a good performance car, but suffers some issues:
1. Oil pickup tube can crack and causes oil starvation and your motor going bye bye in about 20 seconds.
2. The factory seats are terrible, they don't hold you on the turns.
3. Back in the days when I had my 2004 STi, the factory VF-39 Turbo wastegate housing used to crack at some point.
4. Modding the engine is fun, but the stock turbo can push about 375 bhp at most at around 19 lbs of boost. Beyond that, you'll need a bigger turbo with more airflow and supporting mods. The stage 2 custom tune is the way to go if you want to leave the engine/factory turbo alone. (Downpipe, ECU, fuel pump and an APS 65mm CAI worked well for me)
5. The ride is pretty un-forgiving.
6. The road noise on rough pavement can become annoying.
Solutions:
1. Get an aftermarket pickup tube, this requires draining the oil, removing the middle part of the header, lifting the engine up with a cherry picker and installation.
2. RECARO seats work great, I got mine on eBay and they were from a 2003 Lancer Evolution.
3. I think the stock turbo has been improved but don't quote me on that.
4. You can run the stage 2 with a dyno tune on 93 (or 91 California) pump gas and still have a pretty fast car with close to 400 bhp. If you want more than that, be prepared to open your wallet. The block/pistons will have to be addressed, you'll need a bigger turbo, injectors, walbro 255 lph fuel pump, front mount intercooler and other supporting mods. (probably clutch too)
5. You can tweak the suspension, although I never got into that.
Overall I feel the car got uglier with the years.
A few notes:
The handling is great in rain and snow. (for snow, you'll need different tires, the summer tires are NOT a good idea)
Don't bother with the factory boost gauge, go with Defi gauges (oil pressure, oil temp and boost), pricey? yes, but the sensors and gauges are top notch.
Overall, if you want to do it on the cheaper side, go for a 2005 or 2006 year model, they are less than 20K and can be made very fast.
Everything I mentioned is a result of 6 years experience owning a 2004. It was fun, but I feel the IS-F is a much better car all around.
I had the same experience, he beat me on the turn into the freeway on-ramp, after that I walked away from him.
As for the latest STi body style, it looks like a Toyota Corolla IMO.
1. Oil pickup tube can crack and causes oil starvation and your motor going bye bye in about 20 seconds.
2. The factory seats are terrible, they don't hold you on the turns.
3. Back in the days when I had my 2004 STi, the factory VF-39 Turbo wastegate housing used to crack at some point.
4. Modding the engine is fun, but the stock turbo can push about 375 bhp at most at around 19 lbs of boost. Beyond that, you'll need a bigger turbo with more airflow and supporting mods. The stage 2 custom tune is the way to go if you want to leave the engine/factory turbo alone. (Downpipe, ECU, fuel pump and an APS 65mm CAI worked well for me)
5. The ride is pretty un-forgiving.
6. The road noise on rough pavement can become annoying.
Solutions:
1. Get an aftermarket pickup tube, this requires draining the oil, removing the middle part of the header, lifting the engine up with a cherry picker and installation.
2. RECARO seats work great, I got mine on eBay and they were from a 2003 Lancer Evolution.
3. I think the stock turbo has been improved but don't quote me on that.
4. You can run the stage 2 with a dyno tune on 93 (or 91 California) pump gas and still have a pretty fast car with close to 400 bhp. If you want more than that, be prepared to open your wallet. The block/pistons will have to be addressed, you'll need a bigger turbo, injectors, walbro 255 lph fuel pump, front mount intercooler and other supporting mods. (probably clutch too)
5. You can tweak the suspension, although I never got into that.
Overall I feel the car got uglier with the years.
A few notes:
The handling is great in rain and snow. (for snow, you'll need different tires, the summer tires are NOT a good idea)
Don't bother with the factory boost gauge, go with Defi gauges (oil pressure, oil temp and boost), pricey? yes, but the sensors and gauges are top notch.
Overall, if you want to do it on the cheaper side, go for a 2005 or 2006 year model, they are less than 20K and can be made very fast.
Everything I mentioned is a result of 6 years experience owning a 2004. It was fun, but I feel the IS-F is a much better car all around.
As for the latest STi body style, it looks like a Toyota Corolla IMO.
Last edited by 2URGSE; 11-01-15 at 03:39 AM.
11-01-15, 03:36 AM
#29
The Top end and the whole performance issue can be changed of course, but requires more money.
My friend had a 2006 with an SZ-55 turbo and supporting mods, 485+ at the wheels and was destroying LS-7 factory Z06's all day long.
11-01-15, 04:17 PM
#30