Center Bore
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01-19-12, 05:40 PM
#8
Also note that some hub ring manufacturers make bulk lots of "as close to" sizes for hub rings. For example 60.1 instead of 60.06 and 73.1 instead of 73.30. Getting rings with the "as close to" sizes anodized will add a few more points of a mm hence filling in the gap required for close to precise fitment. Otherwise they fit lose and will add to any vibration concerns you might be trying to solve. Unless you have them custom manufactured, which I recommend for heavy duty applications such as autocross or track racing.
In any case hub rings are NOT just for centering the wheels when bolting them on, they should also serve the purpose of carrying load weight from the vehicle. NOT the wheels studs.
In any case hub rings are NOT just for centering the wheels when bolting them on, they should also serve the purpose of carrying load weight from the vehicle. NOT the wheels studs.
01-19-12, 05:51 PM
#11
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iTrader: (2)
The rings ARE for centering the wheel on install, and install alone. Suspension forces are measured in tonnes, not pounds. If you think there is a difference in the failure mode just because one ring is aluminum and the other is plastic, you're kidding yourself.
01-19-12, 06:02 PM
#12
If this happens, you've got a much more serious problem. This means the clamping surface between the wheel and hub is not clean. If the wheel EVER moves relative to the hub with correct torque applied to the studs, you're in for a wild ride starting with your studs breaking off, regardless of what adapter you're using.
The rings ARE for centering the wheel on install, and install alone. Suspension forces are measured in tonnes, not pounds. If you think there is a difference in the failure mode just because one ring is aluminum and the other is plastic, you're kidding yourself.
The rings ARE for centering the wheel on install, and install alone. Suspension forces are measured in tonnes, not pounds. If you think there is a difference in the failure mode just because one ring is aluminum and the other is plastic, you're kidding yourself.
In my tests with countless different hub rings and custom fitments I found that precise fitments yield far superior ride results than with "bulk" sizes. In both aluminum and plastic. There's a lot of misconception about this debate but I've concluded in my own studies that hub rings are important to the ride and stability of the vehicle. Wheels studs and lugs clamp the wheel into the vehicles face and are a contributing factor to the weight load, that's why proper clamping force should be exercised when torquing the wheels. But hub fitment from the wheel should make contact for even more assurance for weight bearing purposes.
Last edited by XhyDra; 01-19-12 at 06:08 PM.
01-19-12, 06:07 PM
#13
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iTrader: (2)
Real racing cars have a single large nut retaining the wheel too. It's a completely different animal. The difference isn't the material, it's the precision of the mounting. The wheel isn't going to move on the hub once the fasteners are torqued - again - if it does, the fasteners are next to break, and for sure especially if the relative motion continues.
The other thing to keep in mind with aftermarket wheels is they all use conical seats on the studs, which means if the hub bore and the wheel bore are not well aligned, or if the hub centering ring is not precisely fit, the studs are going to be working against each other as soon and you tighten the lug nuts. They're also trying to move the wheel off center or at least somewhere it wasn't when the centering ring was put in place - or worst of all - when no centering ring is used and the wheel bore does not match the hub bore (yes, there really are people doing this), then the wheel is going to center on the studs which is not at all how Scion/Toyota/Lexus intended their hubs and studs to be used.
I understand your point, but the reality is, if the wheel is properly centered, it won't matter how it got there once the lugs are tight. Better centering rings will do a better job of centering, but it won't matter if they're austenitic stainless or polyethylene as long as the wheel is concentric with the hub when the lugs are tightened.
The other thing to keep in mind with aftermarket wheels is they all use conical seats on the studs, which means if the hub bore and the wheel bore are not well aligned, or if the hub centering ring is not precisely fit, the studs are going to be working against each other as soon and you tighten the lug nuts. They're also trying to move the wheel off center or at least somewhere it wasn't when the centering ring was put in place - or worst of all - when no centering ring is used and the wheel bore does not match the hub bore (yes, there really are people doing this), then the wheel is going to center on the studs which is not at all how Scion/Toyota/Lexus intended their hubs and studs to be used.
I understand your point, but the reality is, if the wheel is properly centered, it won't matter how it got there once the lugs are tight. Better centering rings will do a better job of centering, but it won't matter if they're austenitic stainless or polyethylene as long as the wheel is concentric with the hub when the lugs are tightened.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 01-19-12 at 06:15 PM.
01-19-12, 06:12 PM
#14
i'm sure both of XhyDra and lobuxracer make great points - for high-performance/racing applications.
but we're talking about for use with five:axis wheels and street tires - strongly implying that the wheels and tires will be limited to daily driving (vs. high-performance track driving).
as such, i'd go with the budget-conscious "junk plastic" 73.1-60.1 hubcentric rings (assuming the five:axis wheels have a center bore of 73.1mm).
but to each his own, right?
but we're talking about for use with five:axis wheels and street tires - strongly implying that the wheels and tires will be limited to daily driving (vs. high-performance track driving).
as such, i'd go with the budget-conscious "junk plastic" 73.1-60.1 hubcentric rings (assuming the five:axis wheels have a center bore of 73.1mm).
but to each his own, right?
01-19-12, 06:17 PM
#15
I've tested multiple cars with different wheel set ups. Clean surfaces on the surface of the hub and the rotor face as well as the wheels. Torqued down to spec and centered with bulk sized rings, and the results were similar, there was fine vibration observed. Notice how people on different forums use the term "reduce vibration" instead of eliminates vibration. There's two different types of vibration associated with having rings on and off. When you have a ring that does not fit snug in both the hub and the wheel bore you'll be more likely to experience some sort of vibration.
From what I've see there's a 50/50 between people that say they're just for centering and those that say otherwise. In any case the race cars I was referring to use lug nuts as well around the wheel with a large hub protruding the wheels face.
From what I've see there's a 50/50 between people that say they're just for centering and those that say otherwise. In any case the race cars I was referring to use lug nuts as well around the wheel with a large hub protruding the wheels face.