1S350IN

The 2007 TL Type S is a very different car from the new TL SH-AWD. The 2007 Type S had 3.5L 280hp V6 which is the motor that is available now in the new base TL. The new TL SH-AWD has a 3.7L 305hp V6. Plus, SH-AWD has a stiffer suspension and drives different from the FWD. So not really apples to apples.

1S350IN

I didn't even consider the IS 250 AWD becuase i wanted more power and the vehicle has the soft suspension that many Lexus vehicles are known to have. I looked at a 2009 GS 350 AWD and it didn't really drive like a sport sedan either. Plus, I couldn't justify shelling out $52,000 for a vehicle that I wouldn't enjoy driving.

Then my delaer showed me a left over 2008 GS 460 RWD. The GS 460 was everything I was looking for but my main concern was that I would get stuck in the snow with over 340hp. Plus, the nav system was the Lexus DVD system which is notoriously known to be sluggish.

To your question - why do car makers now offer HD Nav systems? Primarily because DVD based systems are slower than HD nav systems. Think of it like using dial up internet versus broadband.

Yes, the SH-AWD is FWD biased but the split in the TL varies unlike other manufacturers. The TL system can direct up to 60% to the rear wheels when going through a corner. Up to 70% to the rear wheels during straight line acceleration. Finally, up to 100% of rear wheel torque to the outer rear wheel when accelarating through a corner. The's why Acura calls their system Super Handling AWD because it's not just designed for inclement weather.

Kurtz

iTrader: (1)

Not really...

The new TL has 25 more hp, but a ton more weight due to the AWD system, so performance is still not as good as the IS350 for either TL...

(plus, IMHO, it's far less attractive, but I recognize that's entirely subjective)

I'm glad they finally made an improvement that deals with the horrible torque steer, but I'd have much rather they did so by driving the correct 2 wheels instead of adding a ton of weight to needlessly drive all 4. IMHO nothing much under 500 hp actually needs AWD unless it's going to primarily be driven off road. (I say that having grown up and lived in some pretty nasty winters (both NY and Canada) and having driven almost entirely RWD cars in my life, most V8s or hi-po 6s... smart driving and GOOD snow tires get you by just fine).

LexFather

TL-S is smaller, more nimble and just as fast. The TL-S also had a stiffer suspension, I believe bigger brakes and it drove very very well for a FWD sedan (not surprising, Honda makes some of the best FWD driving vehicles)
Both the TL-S and TL-SH AWD are Accord based vehicles. The TL-SHAWD is AWD and heavier with more power. Personally I much prefer the TL-S.

The IS 250 AWD has very average performance.

I am aware of the reasons for HD but its not a buying decision for me. I don't really understand the "selective" technology reasoning. For instance I don't understand loving HD NAV and AWD and missing things like cooled seats, self leveling HIDs an all new engine, direct injection or a 6-8 speed auto. Sh-AWD is great in theory and a great AWD system, I have yet to see any vehicle equipped with it at the track where it would be truly exploited. I would love to see the system equipped in vehicles with 350-400hp where the system truly can be advantageous and truly powerful vehicles.

You are correct about the GS 460, I think you did the right thing getting AWD and not relying on snow tires. Infiniti offers the M45x which couples the V-8 with AWD which is pretty cool.

1S350IN

Apparently, it seems the TL SH-AWD 6 speed is actually quicker than the IS 350. At least, according to Car and Driver's recent test of the TL in October. The test shows 0-60 mph in just 5.2 seconds. According to the Lexus website, the IS 350 does a 0-60 mph in 5.6 seconds. See the link below to Car and Driver's recent test of the TL SH-AWD.

Regarding auto leveling HIDs, I must confess that's a feature I miss from my IS 350. However, it was more important for me to have at least HIDs which is standard on all Acuras. To be honest, I didn't really care for the ventilated cooled seats in my IS 350 - I rarely used the feature. I think the TL compensates in other areas the IS 350 lacks. I learned a long time ago that you can't have everything you want in one vehicle.

TL SH-AWD test : http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test

IS-SV

Note: not a valid comparison (different tests, instruments, drivers, tracks, conditions, etc.). Auto companies such as Lexus and Mercedes often show very conservative performance measurements on websites and in brochures mainly for comparison to other vehicles in their own lineup

But I agree, there is no one car that does it all. That's why many of CL members have several vehicles for different purposes.

LexFather

Why quote from different sources? C&D got a 5.1 run in the IS 350
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...s_is350_page_3
. That is the only manual TL test we have seen and they will vary.C&D got 6.5 seconds in the automatic AWD TL.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._sh-awd_page_2
Lexus always has been conservative with results. R&T got a 4.9 run in the IS 350.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=4462

Here they prefer it over the TL-S and G35.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...d/02073car.pdf

The TL-S did it in 5.7 seconds. (this thread is about the TL-S vs IS 350 not the new model)

Mind you the IS 350 gets better gas mileage. Again, I don't understand the picking and choosing of technology. The IS has adaptive headlights as well as self leveling, turning in the direction of the turn by 5-15 degrees. We can't just "overlook" the lack of more transmission gears and the lack of direct injection or a new engine. We can't overlook the fact the IS 350 is built off the GS platform in Japan and the TL is built off the Accord platform in Ohio. The IS amazingly has a slightly larger trunk. The IS offers real wood, the TL doesn't offer it. I don't think the TL offers adaptive cruise control. It doesn't have electroluminescent gauges. The IS has headlight cleaners optional, not the TL. The IS offers Mark Levinson (I find the previous TL with ELS to be a better system than the new model). I haven't touched styling, you don't want me to. The IS offers F-sport parts and having driven it at the track, it makes a big difference.

As you stated, different strokes for different folks and on an IS forum, people will feel the IS offers features the TL lacks. Sentiments will be different on a TL forum. You are completely right that there isn't ONE vehicle that does it all. All I want is a 500hp car that gets 40 MPG, weighs 3300 lbs, seats 7 but looks like an Aston Martin coupe, with AWD and is a hybrid

To be COMPLETELY honest, I doubt the TL and IS are cross shopped much anymore. The TL is just huge now and most sold are big FWD cars (80% FWD to 20% AWD), the IS is much much smaller. Buick targets the ES 350 and TL in ads. The ES 350 and TL are both based off lesser platforms, both FWD (TL has AWD option) and both are fairly large. The ES is more tuned for luxury, the TL more for sport.

The market sadly hasn't responded well at all to the new TL as sales are far under sales goals. It does everything good but while you like the styling, most are pretty turned off by it. Its a good car in a very questionable wrapper whereas the last one was a good car in a beautiful one.

Now this thread is about the TL-S vs IS 350, not the new model.

L-S-D

iTrader: (-1)

i know styling is subjective and to each his own...
but in all seriousness
does ANYONE even think the TL is good looking at all?? im not even joking but im sure i can speak for almost everyone when i say its ..... FUGLY!!!!!!!!

uaaction

iTrader: (7)

+1 The new TL has NO taste or style what so EVER

Now i did race the new TL ShAWD and i smoked it and it was just from a light the reason is the Curb Weight its like 500 pounds heavier then our cars
Exterior
Length: 195.3 in. Width: 74 in.
Height: 57.2 in. Wheel Base: 109.3 in.
Ground Clearance: 5.7 in. Curb Weight: 3971 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 38.4 in. Front Hip Room: 55.7 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 58.1 in. Rear Head Room: 36.7 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 56.2 in. Rear Hip Room: 54.8 in.
Front Leg Room: 42.5 in. Rear Leg Room: 36.2 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12.5 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 13 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5

Performance Data



Performance
Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3.7 liters
Base Engine Type: V6 Horsepower: 305 hp
Max Horsepower: 6200 rpm Torque: 273 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 5000 rpm Drive Type: AWD
Turning Circle: 38.5 ft.

and Our ISXX

Length: 180.1 in. Width: 70.9 in.
Height: 56.1 in. Wheel Base: 107.5 in.
Ground Clearance: 5.7 in. Curb Weight: 3527 lbs.
Interior
Front Head Room: 37.2 in. Front Hip Room: 54.1 in.
Front Shoulder Room: 54.4 in. Rear Head Room: 36.7 in.
Rear Shoulder Room: 52.7 in. Rear Hip Room: 53.7 in.
Front Leg Room: 43.9 in. Rear Leg Room: 30.6 in.
Luggage Capacity: 13 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 13 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5

Performance Data



Performance
Acceleration (0-60 mph): 5.61 sec. Braking Distance (60-0 mph): 119.93 ft.
Base Number of Cylinders: 6 Base Engine Size: 3.5 liters
Base Engine Type: V6 Horsepower: 306 hp
Max Horsepower: 6400 rpm Torque: 277 ft-lbs.
Max Torque: 4800 rpm Drive Type: RWD
Turning Circle: 33.5 ft.


So its OVER 3971 lbs.
3527 lbs.
We weight 444 pounds less and if we take out spare then thats 50 pounds
SO race and bet money LOL Good Luck

IS-SV

I've seen people here talk about driving BMWs blind-folded, so maybe the TL is the perfect car for the visually-impaired.

YooNiBaLL

This is the reason why I never brought up how ugly the new TL is in my original post. : P It's a well-known fact.

1S350IN

I have owned two Lexus IS' and this TL is my second TL. So I am definitely coming from a unique vantage point. I know this is a Lexus IS forum so naturally the responses would favor Lexus. Regarding wood, I opted not to have wood in my IS 350 becuase I simply did not like it. I prefer aluminium trim but that's a personal preference.

Out of all the luxury manufacturers, Lexus certainly does the wood "overkill" thing. BMW rarely uses wood. I think BMW, Infiniti, Audi and Acura have different marketing objectives than Lexus and Mercedes Benz. Lexus is trying to create a premium ownership experience that is less perfornance oriented for their non-niche vehicles. While the others (BMW, Infiniti, Audi, Acura) are gearing more towards sportiness and performance. BMW has definitely been the most successful in that regard.

I agree with you, I don't think people who look at the IS cross-shop the TL. I think customers who look at the TL are more likely to look at the G37, Audi A4, ES 350 and BMW 3 series/ 5 series. The one comment I got as I drove my IS 350 to shop for a new vehicle at BMW and Infiniti dealers was the cramped rear seat and soft Lexus suspension. The infiniti dealer told me he does not even consider the IS a competitor to the G37. When you think about it, the IS is a much smaller car inside than the G37, A4 and BMW 3 series. Another major criticism of Lexus has been its bland styling that look very much Toyota vehicles. Just look at the new HS 250 which was basically developed on the european Toyota Avensis platform, it looks very much like a Toyota Corolla. But styling is in the eye of the beholder.

To your comment about the TL being on the Accord platform, it is simply a very different vehicle. Lexus has several vehicles in it's current lineup that are Toyota vehicles overseas. The first gen IS was a Toyota in Japan. The GS was sold as a Toyota Aristo in Japan for many years as well. The GX is a Land Cruiser Prado in many parts of the world. The LX is essentially the Land Cruiser sold in North America. Yes, the TL is built in Ohio but they use the same quality standards as Honda/Acura in Japan. The RX 350 is built in Canada, the BMW X5 and X6 are both built in South Carolina.

The Acura TL, Infiniti G37 and Lexus IS and ES are all down in sales 30% through October. The reason as you probably know is the bad economy. Is not just Acura, is pretty consistent across the board. Plus, Acura has two closely priced vehicles in the category - the TL and TSX V6. The TSX V6 is new for 2010. So TL customers now have a second option so that could cannibalize sales.

Gas mileage on the IS 350 is 18/25 and 17/25 on the TL SH-AWD so basically no difference.

Styling is obviously very subjective. Look at the BMW 5 and 7 series (designed by Chris Bangle) that were heavily criticized when they launched. Bangle personally took a lot of heat from the press for the styling. The previous gen 7 series and current 5 series turned out be one of BMW's most succesful in its history. Chris Bangle is now known as one of the greatest automotive designers due to his work on the 5 and 7 series. The new Audi grille was also very controversial when it debut a few years ago. Like BMW/Audi, Acura has taken an aggressive and futuristic design approach to its new vehicles (TL and ZDX). Time will tell whether the strategy is working.

I loved my Lexus and will buy another one if I find a vehicle that meets my needs. But the reality is Lexus vehicles are often criticized for lack of sportiness/driving characteristics. However, I think that is the marketing strategy Lexus has decided to pursue on their non-niche vehicles.

1S350IN

To your comment regarding the TL ELS Surround System, the automotive press has generally lauded the TL ELS system as the best of any luxury vehicle. Edmunds.com recently ranked several luxury vehicle sound systems. The TL ELS Surround System came out on top beating even the Lexus LS 460 Mark Levinson system, Infiniti M45 Bose system, Aston Martin DBS Volante/Bang and Olufsen and Jaguar XFR's Bowers & Wilkins system. No wonder Acura's are generally praised by automotive journalists for offering lots of technology features for the money.

See link to Edmunds.com article: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/aud...8/article.html

LexFather

What is this lots of technology? A radio and HD? What about engines, world first dual planetary set CVTs, 8 speed transmissions, platforms, hybrids, paint technology, LEDs, analine leathers, Brembo brakes, radar cruise, carbon fiber, you know the actual car? The LS for instance has 12 world firsts. Everyone offers fantastic radios today, Acura caught up to the old Lexus Nakamichi and now Mark Levinson systems. I said ELS was great, its a great system, not sure why you are even making one link about it again.

Mark Levinson called the "benchmark" here
http://www.laaudiofile.com/newcar.html


Here ML beats ELS and B&O
http://www.caraudiomag.com/testrepor...reo/index.html

I am not going to further argue radios, I am no audiophile , I know ELS sounds great and I know ML sounds great as well.

projectdna

iTrader: (56)

i suppose when the exterior leaves a lot to be desired for, the oem sound system has to impress...