lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Honda dynos their engines before you get them. The hard part is done. Just like Toyota.

Never having to add oil means your oil is collecting water between changes. The level doesn't change because the condensation inside the engine gets emulsified into the oil. Every engine uses some oil even with a "perfect" ring seal. The amount of oil determines a lot of things about how the engine runs.

Oh, and a single event doesn't make a trend. I've built literally hundreds of engines and broken them in from initial firing. You bought one from Honda that they had already fired and tested. Big difference. The point is, the stuff in the manual isn't important to long service life. There are lots of other things far more important.

Jenman

so are you saying that because toyota already has dynoed the engine in the IS, there's no need to use the break-in procedure you made reference to ealier in the thread?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'll still use my break-in procedure. They didn't go to full load when they put it on the dyno. They just wanted to get initial ring seat and hammer the valves against the seats to be sure it will run and won't be immediately problematic. I do that in the first 30 seconds after I fire an engine. The rest takes about an hour. You don't absolutely have to do it on initial fire, but you should do it as soon as possible after.

whatjones

When you use ur full throttle break-in procedure, do you let the engine get to full operating temp. or just start it up and go?

bdmac

So uhm.... I guess I'm going to try the "gun it" approach. I really hope it doesn't screw anything up. :-(

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

NO. This is what I do. From a post to the MkIV Supra mail list in '99:

"I have a standard break in procedure that I use, it takes about an hour if you are diligent, and when you are done, break in is complete. The biggest point of grief with a new engine is the unrelieved stresses in the pistons. You want to heat and cool them in a predictable way with an incrementally increasing thermal load. I usually start at 20% throttle and go in 10 or 15% increments until I get full throttle. Bursts should be 15 to 30 seconds, followed by 5 minutes part throttle cruise to let the pistons cool and resize themselves. You can figure out that 30 seconds in top gear at full throttle will have you going pretty fast down the road, so you need a clear stretch to do this, but I have never had a problem with leak down or bad piston fit using this technique. That crap about "XXX" miles is just so the average driver doesn't blow things up.

Also, I assemble the cylinders dry, but turn the engine over for about 15 seconds with no fuel or ignition before my initial start up, then I run it up to about 25% of redline as soon as it catches for 30 seconds or so. Once I have my initial 30 seconds and no gushing leaks, I take it out for a drive right away. I want to put pressure on the rings and valves to get them to seat well and that can't be done without a load, so off we go down the road for about 5 minutes, then return to the shop to check for oil or coolant leaks.

If all is OK, back out on the road for final break in."

That's how I do it, and it works very well.

whatjones

So you do all that on a cold engine, no warm up? Isnt that bad for the engine

Bichon

Of course it is. But when your new car is burning oil and getting lousy gas mileage, you can tell yourself that it isn't your fault, since you were only following the advice of an anonymous person on the Internet who claims to have built hundreds of engines. Who could fault you for listening to such sage advice over the recommendations of Lexus, who has built hundreds of thousands of engines and designed, engineered and warrantees yours.

ff_

Well done!

ff_

As opposed to oil that's been sitting on Walmart's shelf for 6 months?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Nice post. Yeah, I'm anonymous here. I'm not in many other places, particularly the MkIV Supra community. But, it's your engine, and if you want less power and more oil consumption, rock on.

BTW, did you know Lexus, Toyota, and Scion all set the a/f mixture at WOT nearly 10:1 and lose 5 - 10% power because of it. Probably not. In their infinite wisdom, they set up the engines NOT to make best power, but to survive warranty should anything go wrong.

So, check out any of the well know West Coast tuners (some are my friends), check out any of the reliable sources on the Internet, or in your local high performance community and see what the quickest and easiest way to add power is. I guarantee you it isn't some metal tube with K&N filter stuck on it, and you won't need to remove your cats and violate Federal law either.

There's a lot more I know about TCCS, VVTi, and some of the other familiar Toyco acronyms, but hey, I'm just an anonymous person on the Internet.

Since I'm just an anonymous person on the 'Net, I guess you are too. And you probably wouldn't be able to successfully distinguish between a throttle position sensor and a manifold pressure sensor if I put them both in your hand, just like you think I can't.

I guess your "voice of reason" isn't so reasonable to me at all.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Please, tell me where I said to do anything like this to an engine with cold oil? Only an idiot would go WOT on an engine with cold oil. And I've seen drivers of all makes and models violating this cardinal rule. At least the enthusiasts get it right.

islandsnow

what exactly will happen if you ignore the break procedures for the break in period? just damage to the engine? i realized this after but my salesperson didn't tell me about the breakin period. after driving on the freeway, i noticed that there was a burning smell in the engine area after. not sure if it was because the car is new and i was travelling about 50-60mph

Bichon

Don't worry about the smell. It is just cosmoline, sprayed on to prevent corrosion, burning off.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

it's pretty hard to damage an engine this large when the initial break-in has already been done for you. The only thing you could do to really damage the engine straight off the showroom floor would be to take it to top speed right away with no regard for giving the pistons a chance to resize themselves. Full load in a single shot with no progressive heat build up and cool down cycles will certainly do exactly what Bichon said - the engine will burn oil, get poor fuel economy and will require a rebuild WELL before it is due because the pistons will not be properly shaped anymore.

Oh, and B, if you still think I'm FOS, I can always ask my contact at Mahle about this, he works in the motorsports division where they make pistons for F1, NASCAR, and other top level racing teams. Yep, I'm a nobody for sure.