F250

I'm in the market, and we've decided on a 2010-2011 RX350... until yesterday. I've been lurking in the shadows here in the forum for several weeks now, reading lots of threads on repair issues, reliability discussions, etc. Now it's time for me to start asking questions, though.

Yesterday, found what looks like a sweet deal with an outstanding Carfax report for a 2011 RX450H (77K miles, two owners, pristine appearance, clear Carfax, asking price of $21K). I Had NOT considered the 450H until yesterday, and am now intrigued. I know that the NEW sales prices for the hybrids are thousands more than the 350's, but why have they apparently lost so much resale value? Are there problems I cannot find? Is it a function of disillusioned owners who just don't like the different driving characteristics? Is there some ominous huge repair looming ahead which is causing the hybrid owners to sell for so little (in comparison to the 350's)? Are the initial sticker prices simply over-inflated to begin with? Overly eager impetus for the newest and latest model years? Combination of all the above?

I'll thank you ahead of time for your insights and experienced perspectives.

Pete

MellonC00

I've been negotiating on a 2013 450h myself over the last 4 days. I think i'm only paying about 5% above that of FWD RX and about 3% above that of AWD RX. I think it's just a function of the used car market. As for the battery life, I'm not that worried. My friend's Prius now has 220K mile on it and it works just fine.

F250

Long term issues are what I am most concerned about. I tend to keep vehicles for a minimum of 5-7 years, and have put 170K miles on my current DD in the past 10 years ('02 F250 diesel w/ 285K on the clock). The annual mileage on the new RX (either 450h or 350) will only be in the 9K-10K range, and I'm trying to stay below 80K miles on the purchase. I honestly don't think that I'm risking a serious liability on the mileage issue, but am simply more interested in why the H's have seen such a market drop in resale values as compared to the gassers.

To be honest, this will be my wife's vehicle, and it is she who is most concerned because of the ECVT and "hybrid" technology being a "really new" thing for her. She has not been happy with my having put her into the diesel Excursion she's driven for the past 7 years, and is afraid of "another experiment". Also, I typically do ALL of my own maintenance and repairs, all the way down to the OBDII diagnostics work (I draw the line, though, at the engine block/heads and transmission housing!). Consequently, we both have some "wonderments" about the implications of tossing a hybrid into my world of shade tree repair and maintenance.

I am going to try to do some test drives with her with some of the 2012's/13's here in town, and if that goes well and we're both satisfied, I'll add the H's to the list of potentials. The 2011 which caught my attention, though, is nearly three hours from where I live, and my schedule won;t allow me to go look at it until sometime early next week. Meanwhile, I'm asking around and trying to gain some hybrid awareness.

vfr700f2

Used prices reflect the market's fears of potential expensive problems. Are those fears founded? If not, it's a win for the used buyer.

kitlz

Pete, I assume the 450h is FWD. That along with how well it's equipped and mileage in comparison to the 350 can possibly explain the little difference in price. Right now there's not too much demand for hybrids with low gas prices. People don't seem to realize it means even more savings. The fears of having to replace the hybrid battery could be another. The warranty is 8 years/100K miles. I'm sure it can go well beyond that. Well, price has dropped on hybrid batteries too. Overall maintenance cost is less. For example, the brakes can last two to three times longer than the 350. The original 12V battery on my '10 was still going strong after 6+ years.

I think once your wife takes an RXh out for a spin, she'll enjoy the smoothness. And how fun it is driving in stealth mode (aka EV mode) or trying to maximize mileage. Just watch out, it may change the way you both drive. But don't worry, it's all good. When you go, make sure you try both eco and regular mode to appreciate the difference. Good luck.

F250

Thanks for the insights. Yes, I've sort of resigned myself to sticking with FWD for either car at this point. We so rarely ever get anything white down here that it's hard to justify the extra daily fuel expense for something which may only get used once every 2-4 years.

As for the exhaust systems... again, since we're not really in the salted regions, I foresee no real near term issue with that, though I do understand why they would be more costly. Even when looking at the underside of my '02 and '03 diesels, as well as my son's '99 4runner... there just is no corrosion issue whatsoever showing up as ANY level of concern.

As for vehicle availability, most of what I'm seeing is not local, so I have not been able to test drive more than one 350 at this point. I'm going to try to run over to Carmax tomorrow to try out one of their '13 RXh's just for a driving style comparison. The '11 RXh I'm interested in is just too far away for a "run over and check it out" kind of thing, so I'm having to play it cagey right now and am just taking advantage of my down time to continue my research and consideration (I had a simple lower back procedure yesterday -- facet block).

Thanks again... I'll be sure to post up once we've decided and purchased, which will hopefully be in the next 2-4 weeks.

wa3cuj

I have never driven a FWD 450h so I have no idea of the difference. However, when I look at the energy display on my 2013 AWD (also on my previous 2010 AWD) the rear motor kicks in quite frequently during normal driving conditions.

NateJG

Amplifying Bob's observations, my '13 AWDh ALWAYS starts out in AWD - and it drops off the rear wheels at somewhere between 15 and 19 MPH.

The rear motor is always used during regenerative braking to grab more energy and stuff it into the battery.

I see no downside to the AWD; and even if I spent my entire time in Florida, I'd have bought the AWD - if for no other reason than to balance the tire wear during acceleration and deceleration.

I have found that, in Michigan's winters, the VDIM AWD is a Stellar Performer (and it does remarkably well on the Tail of the Dragon!).

F250

Well, the AWD option just is not quite as available here, either. I drove the FWD for an hour today... though our exceptionally hilly and curvy neighborhood, on and off the interstate, and went through some frog-strangling downpour gusher rain through part of the ride. The vehicle has 183K miles on it and is what I personally consider a very unattractive powder blue, but it rode and drove like a dream. I was impressed with the power and did not find it exceptionally different from what I'm used to otherwise (in terms of different driving style). Very easily adaptable! The slow start off the line will takea little getting used to, as will the sound of the engien as you come to a complete stop. Otherwise, easy-peasey!

I do believe, though, that I'm going to shoot for an RXh. I was impressed with the instantaneous mileage values, though I hate the bar chart format. I was also somewhat distracted by the oscillating passenger side wiper arm base... that things a CHUNK, and it seems like it could have been made with a significantly lower profile. The wiper arms are rather thick, too. All in all, though, it's not too terribly bad.