Scott R

I just posted a similar thread in another forum here about the RX330, but then I went and did some searches for RX400h deals, and it looks like the situation is similar. So here's a pretty much word-for-word repost of what I posted about the RX330...

Hello all, I'm a former owner of a '99 RX300. We bought it used and it was primarily my wife's car. We started having some significant issues with it after it passed 100K miles (I forget the exact number - it's been at least 5 years since we've had it) and so we eventually traded it in. Because of the high cost of the Lexus dealer wanting to charge us for things, we kind of swore off Lexus for a while, but several years later I found myself buying another Lexus. This time, an '02 SC430 (I bought it around '06 w/about 60K miles on it). I've still got it, about 120K miles now, and while I am a bit bored with it, it has been (knock on wood) super-reliable and low-cost. Pretty much no problems whatsoever. For better or worse, I don't bring it in to the Lexus dealer for anything...I just bring it to local shops for oil changes, brakes, etc., and had a timing belt job done from a local shop as well.

Anyway, my daughter is turning 16 soon and is eager to start driving. I'd just as soon hold her off until she moves out, but I remember back when I was turning 16 and I wanted to drive, too, so I guess I should stop acting so old. We're thinking we'll want to get a 3rd car, have it be in our name, and allow her to drive it as we see fit. My initial thinking was to get an older Prius or high-MPG vehicle, but my wife is obsessed about "safety" and would like it to be an AWD/4WD vehicle if possible (BTW, we're in CT). Of course, AWD adds significant cost and in searching through cars.com, it seems like even older, high-mileage vehicles with AWD are pretty darn expensive. Circling back to a previous comment I made...I have an SC430, and every winter I think to myself, "Maybe I should get something with AWD." So, again, I'm sort of thinking about all of this in terms that this 3rd vehicle could primarily be *MY* 2nd vehicle and my daughter's usage of it could be a secondary (or shared) matter.

So getting on to my question...I look at cars.com to see what I can get for $10K or less with AWD and there's not much to see. Everything is super-high mileage, and much of it is American made, which worries me in terms of reliability. A Honda CR-V or Toyota RAV4 seems to start around $12K with close to 100K miles. But here's where it gets interesting...for just a couple grand more, I'm seeing similarly high mileage RX330's ('04-05) and RX400h's ('06). Let's say $14-16K. Now, based on my really positive experience with my '02 SC430, I'm thinking that I'd much rather spend a couple extra grand on an RX330 over some high-mileage American 4WD vehicle or a blah Honda CR-V, especially since I can use it myself to drive around in a bit more luxury. But I worry...just why are these RX's as cheap as they are? It also seems weird to me that used Highlanders of a similar year with similar mileage seem to go for quite a bit more.

So is there something I don't know? Are these '04-06 RX330's/RX400h's a nightmare in terms of reliability/maintenance costs, or are they a true sleeper in terms of overall value?

The other question to ask...when looking at these '04-06 RX's, would I be better off with an RX330 vs RX400h? The RX400h obviously appeals to me from a gas-mileage perspective, but I do worry a bit about whether the additional technology involved with a hybrid might be more apt to having issues.

RX330inFL

Hybrids are less efficient in cold weather. So, do not base your decision solely on MPG numbers. Few see the EPA numbers on the window sticker with the RX400h. There are plenty of threads existing here at CL on the topic for you to read on the ins and outs of owning a hybrid RX400h.

smassey321

Older RX's are not a nightmare for repairs although there are some odd ball expensive things that can go bad.. The issues is demand. The demographic who primarily purchase these is older and has little interest in vehicles with over 100k miles. The same can be said for something like a BMW 7 series. A 2005 BMW 7 will sell for the same thing as a 2005 3 series even though the 7 was twice the cost new. Unless the younger people have interest in it the price will go down.

I also have a daughter who will be driving soon. I personally would not give her the RX400 because it has a lot of power for a 1st time driver. She would get a Prius with snow tires . The Prius is far more reliable than the RX and in rare events where something expensive goes bad it is half the cost of the Lexus repair.

Joeb427

iTrader: (1)

A hybrid out of warranty scares people.
I wouldn't buy one.

Scott R

The Prius (or something like a Honda Fit) is on my radar, too. Again, though, initially anyway, this vehicle would be just as much mine (really, it would be all mine, as she doesn't have a job). The idea would be that a year or two down the line, it might become hers (or, by that time, when she has a part-time job, and has demonstrated that she's a good driver, let her have more of a say in what type of car she would want). As I mentioned, I have an SC430 now. I work out of my home most of the time, but occasionally have to travel to PA. Having another AWD vehicle in the family wouldn't be bad for me, since I could avoid taking the SC430 out during the winter. But a FWD car w/snow tires in the winter is certainly an option. I've thought about getting snow tires for my SC430, but my biggest problem is that our garage is really tight, so I just don't have the spare room to store an extra set of tires.

The 400h has been out long enough that there should be some good data on this. What types of costs are long-term 400h owners seeing?

thomas1

I own a RX400h and have owned a RX300, but you will not beat the reliability of the Prius. The RX400h is very powerful, (I love it) Cost wise and maintenance wise the RX goes through tires faster (bigger rims and low profile) The hybrid can be a very expensive item on the RX. Some of the issues are leaks on the inverter assembly which Lexus can not repair except for complete replacement ($7000). Seems to me most of the time I see these leaks mentioned they are from areas that have winter conditions, unlike where I live in California. New York taxis (prius) have shown incredible reliability with over 300k miles on them. Insurance would also be cheaper on the prius.

jakenbake

Smassey has it dead on.

smassey321

I have been surfing these forums for 4 years now and there are a few rare expensive things I have seen go wrong. When I say rare I am talking about 2 or 3 posts of people having the issue. Inverters can leak coolant. Transmissions can leak coolant. Both of these could possibly be fixed for less cost by removing and fixing the leak but dealers only will replace the entire part. Other issues are traction batteries but I have not seen a single person who had to pay for that on their own. The electric AC can fail but I think only 1 person has posted that. The electric ABS system can go out.

The most common low cost repairs are related to the coolant systems. Water pumps, radiators, hybrid water pump. Before you buy an RX400h look under it closely for signs of pink drips. Both the hybrid system and engine both use the same pink coolant in separate systems.

thomas1

Consumers report have given excellent marks for reliability on the RX400h. That is a good sign and shows owners surveys are important. Prius for my daughter would be the choice.

neelnaik

I agree with smassey as to why the RX is so cheap comparatively. I think that since you are primarily going to be using the vehicle for the next couple years, and something that is safe, AWD, and reliable are your priorities, I would say the RX isn't a bad option, but neither is a prius.

The advantage that the RX has over the prius is that you can't deny physics. I don't know if this is the case in CT, but here in Oklahoma, EVERYONE drives trucks (1/2 ton at least, even though most don't need them). The RX would fair better than the Prius would in the same accident. AWD is also a plus. However, I will admit that having AWD does spoil you a bit, in that you have to remember that 2WD drive vehicles don't handle adverse conditions as well or as easily. I often find myself reminding me that I'm not in an AWD vehicle whenever I am driving a 2WD vehicle in bad weather.

Having driven both the 400h and the 330 back to back (my 330 is my dd), the 400h feels much faster, and perhaps a little too fast for a first time driver. If you do decide on the RX, I would drive both the 330 and 400h back to back if you can, before you make the final decision.

The prius is more reliable (note: the RX is also a very reliable vehicle, but the prius does fair a little better). The cost of any repairs is also going to be significantly cheaper. You will also spend significantly less on fuel.

I am probably the odd one out here, but if I were you, I would buy an RX330 AWD, but would make her learn how AWD and FWD/RWD handle differently (in addition to how vehicles higher off the ground roll easier). The thought of my child in an accident with a 1/2 ton (or bigger) pickup in a prius scares me, to be perfectly honest. Most people do not seem to know how to drive without endangering others around here (but that's a story for another time).

thomas1

I like your thoughts, funny years ago I wanted to put my daughter in a Mercedes 220 diesel for safety, she was not too keen on that. Ended up with Honda Accord.....hey Mercedes was built like a tank and was slow.....

joedaddy1

iTrader: (1)

is rx400h considered THAT fast?
it might be a bit faster than rx330, but the car isn't "too damn fast for a first time driver" fast.
I would just buy her the rx400h, it's a nice car and what not.. but does she really want it?
SUV are hard to drive/park/maneuver in general.

I find smaller sedans much easier to drive since they lack blind spots with their big windows...

pennington

Ditto on the RX's appetite for tires. I own an '04 RX330 (since 2008), now has highway miles 240,000 - purchased w/26.000. 5 SETS of tires in 7 years. Has had an almost continuous slight shimmy at 72mph. Only by replacing All tires and ALL rotors will the 70,000 rated Michelin tires give us 30-40,000 actual miles, AWD is nice in winter but expect to buy new shoes every 12-14 months and replace pad/rotors often.

iowaman

Very interesting thread. I am an engineer currently working at a manufacturing plant. I am not wealthy, I make good money and I drive a Lexus ES because to me, it is the best bang for the buck out there and the car fits my personality.
I still feel awkward driving my Lexus to work everyday haha. Most people that work at the factory obviously do not make a lot of money but one of my hourly employees asked me what drove, I said "I drive a Lexus"- his response was "Fancy you!"- I almost cracked up.

My ES looks good and all but it is not even worth 10K right now,- Is it common for people to associate even older Lexus models with wealth? I love my car though

DixieLex

My daughter drives an 06 400 and its been fine. We bought from up north and now we've have issues w/rust so we can't align the tires. So that's gotta be rectified. Other than that, no problems.
Cons:
I think its a little less reliable than a Prius
MPG around 29

Pros:
Will get of its own way, unlike the Prius so good for interstate driving
Sits high up for shorties
Rides like a dream
Looks good, not dorky like Prius
Amazing headlights
Good room for storage.