chiawei

I will disagree with this.

BMW tends to under rate its engine. This is very obvious when you go dyno their car. Typical BMW will pull close to 10% more than what they claim.

Not sure if BMW's powertrain loss is better than Lexus, but even at same HP rating on the engine, to the wheel, BMW will pull more.

As far as both cars goes, I will take BMW over Lexus any day. I will go test drive a new GS. But most likely will be dissappointed with ultra boosted steering. Lexus so far has never made a car that has great steering response (except the IS- which is still a tad too light). BMW just tune the cars better.

flipside909

Different cars for different tastes. Different strokes for different folks. Whatchu talkin' about willis? haha jk.

LexFather

I do agree with BMW being understated slightly. I do believe LExus is accurate though, never overstated. I have to drive both the new 350 vs the GS 3. And while previous BMWs may have been far superior to Lexus(steering), the new ones now have over-complicated steering setups where many have reported, makes the steering feel artificial. The steering was considered the best before, not sure why they wanted to complicate it with the new versions.

Sandman

I think that both Lexus and BMW are known to be conservative with their specs. BMW is claiming 0-60 in 6.6s for the new engine (6.9s for the current model). Lexus is claiming 6.8s. Not something to ignore but not a major difference. Both engines have direct injection and variable intake and exhaust valves. Both have sophisticated 6 sp automatics. I was quite impressed with the new GS300 steering. I will be interested to hear what you report back after driving the car.

I'm looking forward to reading the magazine reviews and seeing the numbers that they get. I forget which mag (Motor Trend??) did it but you probably know that last month there was a sport/luxury sedan shoot-out and the 530 came in 3rd behind the Acura TL and Infiniti M. The GS was not included - much to my dismay! Having driven these cars and knowing that the mags tend to favor raw performance over refinement I would expect that the M would still take top place if the GS were included but I would be quite surprised if the RL were to beat the GS. I'm expecting that the mags will be very positive on the GS when they finally test it.

IsraelRX

Not according to "Automobile" who tested the GS300 and here is what they say about its steering and handling:

jrock65

I wish the mags wouldn't torque brake the cars when they do the 0-60 runs. Who in the world torque brakes their sedans when launching. Edmunds got 5.7s for the M45, 6.4s for the GS430, and 7.5s for the RL; I believe they are like CR, they don't torque brake.

"If you are after speed as priority, maybe M35 Sport?"

Actually, I think a regular non-sport version will be better for straight line acceleration. It's a little lighter than the Sport version, and the 18"s will be better than the 19"s for straight line.

I don't think BMW understates hp. Their relatively good acceleration times are due to lightest-in-class weight and gearing.

Sandman

I tend to agree with you. The technique of power/torque braking produces results that are not realistic. Most of the major mags tell you how they perform their testing. At least if all cars are tested the same way you get a good baseline comparison. I like that some mags (like Car & Driver) show 0-60 and also 5-60 or "Street-start" times. The street-start is where they let the car roll a few mph and then push the pedal to the floor. It is easier on the trans and produces more real world results. 5-60 numbers are usually 0.3 - 0.5 slower than 0-60 power-brake numbers.

I saw the review from Edmunds/Inside Line that you mention. The numbers are strange.

So many things affect these numbers. Even the altitude that the test is done at makes a big difference due to air pressure. Air pressure has a significant effect on combustion intake. Tests run in Atlanta (at 1000 ft above sea level) would be worse than in Orlando. Tests in Denver will be even worse. But all cars will be affected about the same.

Ps - the new GS300 is about 50lbs heavier than the 530. Both are very light compared to the others in the class.

lexguynj

There are many good points listed in this thread and we will just have to see how the new 2006 530i is when it is released. My BMW dealer tells me April Production for June Delivery.

In the meantime, here is one of the very first reviews of the new 2006 BMW 530xi (new engine, etc....link below):

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/ly/06_530xi.htm

ktiger

My point is that the Lexus V8's are just as good as the bimmer or the benz so why go with the more expensive less luxurious (before anyone gets on their high horse, it is my opinion that no one beats Lexus' interiors) least reliable cars.

I agree that the M & AMG are way overpriced but Lexus does not offer a car in this group.

My take on "too expensive" is a vendor have every right to charge what ever he/she wants if someone is willing to pay that price for it.

lexguynj

The Lexus V8 is a beautiful piece of engineering and it's great, but it still lagging behind the BMW's 545 with 325HP and BMW later this year for 2006 MY will have available the 550 with around 360 HP. MB will be right around the corner in these HP wars.

At this time Lexus will still have it's 4.3 V8 with 300 HP, which is why they should pull the trigger soon on introducing their new V8 with more HP. That is why we are all feeling that the 2006 GS430 is just a blink away from being changed to GS450, etc.....

Lexus has to be involved in the HP wars or at least be caught up to be competitive. The curren Lexus 4.3 Liter Engine has to be updated soon. I remember getting the first one for the 2001 GS430 and it's about time!

flipside909

The GS450h will be an addition to the GS lineup, it wont replace the V8 variant.

Just give it some time, in 3rd year or production 2008, we will see a powertrain change/revision after the GS450h.

spwolf

Its kind of funny - when BMW had smaller hp ratings but larger torque, everyone pointed it out - now that Lexus has smaller hp and large torque, BMW lovers forget that part of the story.

There is nothing magical about BMW power ratings, nor does BMW understate their ratings (rather some other manufacturers overstate theirs). What they usually have is car that weights less, is geared shorted (0-60) and has a lot of torque. Well, GS300 now has more torque than 330i (upcoming one, current one is way behind), is also short geared and weights almost the same - hence 0-60 times are now the same.

Same for GS430 and 545i - torque ratings are similar (slightly at lower rpm from Lexus), weight is the same and 545i Auto even has 17" wheels standard to improve acceleration, yet is 0.1 slower from 0-60 than GS.

So you gonna have tought time explaining how 545i is "faster", when it is... not. And 0-60 shows only small part of the story, it is passing times that matter (60-80, 80-120, etc).

flipside909

Exactly! 0.5 seconds may look good on paper for acceleration times, but in reality, 0.5 seconds is just a physical difference by a few inches if not less of a front bumper or fender.

flipside909

Hmm should have been more clear. I agree with spwolf's assessment. Just was pointing out 0-60 accelleration times and how those fractions of a second are negligible in a real world side by side comparison.

DrexLex

Flipside, you're too fast for me! I tried to delete my post any you replied before I could do so. I think my method was wrong. I needed to calculate the overall distance traveled be each car, one taking (in my example) 5.5 sec to reach 60, while the other took 6.0 sec--not the distance resulting from the speed difference at the end, since the two cars are travelling at different speeds over their entire run to 60.

The distance travelled in the first case--very roughly, is 242 ft, while for the second it is 264 ft (using a straightline acceleration curve). That means there's something like 20 feet offset between the two cars at the end. (If I'm at all close to right this time!)