Snow driving observations in the Lexus GS 350 AWD
01-26-13, 05:10 AM
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Snow driving observations in the Lexus GS 350 AWD
My region received a new layer of snow yesterday. Here are some of my observations from driving my Lexus GS 350 AWD in the snow this season.
The Dunlop SP Sport 5100 tries are mediocre. I have not been impressed by the Dunlop tires installed on my vehicle. In normal driving they have a harsh ride, yet, that does not pay off with higher level of grip. The Dunlops' traction in the snow is middling, at best, when compared to other all-season tires.
The stability control system does not interviene quickly or often. I've only recently begun driving vehicles with stability control system. Most of the vehicles I have driven up to this point have had no driving assist aids (one had ABS). I was surprised how little the stability control system, equipped on the GS 350, did to correct some low-speed slides. In one instance I pulled out from a stop sign (from one unplowed road to another) and the vehicle started to oversteer. I immediately managed the slide with counter-steering and I remained on the throttle slightly to keep from exacerbating the oversteer by shifting weight to the front end of the vehicle. I had also hoped that the AWD system would transfer torque to the front axle. The GS had almost completely stopped its yawing motion and was stored out before the stability control intervened.
This stability control calibration is desirable if you're a journalist sliding a car, which you don't own, around Laguna Seca, but it is less so when you're driving your $60,000 car home from work. I know this calibration was done to appease enthusiasts, which I consider myself to be, but different driver-selectable calibration options would be a nice feature. The GS was set to Normal mode; nothing had been disabled or decreased with a Sport or Sport + setting. The vehicle was also configured in Snow mode.
It is not possible to have rev-matched downshifts without a more sensitive throttle calibration. If I wanted to use engine braking to decease my speed, and have rev-matched downshifts to avoid upsetting the vehicle's balance, I was forced in to Sport model. Sport mode brings along a more sensistive throttle calibration which is undesirable in low traction situations. I don't know why I would ever not want rev-matched downshifts, but those are only available when using Sport or Sport + modes.
I encountered a "bucking" or "drivetrain lash" in second gear while creeping the vehicle to a stop. Even with the throttle held to a fixed point, the GS seemed to modulate the throttle on and off anyway. Perhaps this is a consequence of the right pedal making "suggestions" to the ECU on what the "meatbag" piloting the vehicle wants. I've become accustomed to mechanical throttle linkages over the years which truly enact what I want in real time using low-tech cables. I have yet to find an electronic throttle which comes close to that feeling, though the Lexus does a fairly good impression most of the time.
The heated windshield wiper element are a nice touch, but they turn themselves off after 10 or 15 minutes or so. To enable them once more it is necessary to enter the menu, select climate, and push the on-screen button. This is a hassle while driving in the snow.
Overall, I found the GS to be mediocre in the snow; though I will admit the latest snow created unusually low-traction environments due to the extreme cold. I felt my last vehicle, a 2012 Ford Edge Sport was more "confident" in low-traction situations despite its "inferior" FWD-based AWD system. Its 22 inch wheels were festooned with Pirelli Scoprion Zero tires which are fairly well regarded. That vehicle was almost impossible to get out of sorts, including understeer, which you might otherwise expect. Perhaps a tire swap would make a world of difference on the GS 350.
The Dunlop SP Sport 5100 tries are mediocre. I have not been impressed by the Dunlop tires installed on my vehicle. In normal driving they have a harsh ride, yet, that does not pay off with higher level of grip. The Dunlops' traction in the snow is middling, at best, when compared to other all-season tires.
The stability control system does not interviene quickly or often. I've only recently begun driving vehicles with stability control system. Most of the vehicles I have driven up to this point have had no driving assist aids (one had ABS). I was surprised how little the stability control system, equipped on the GS 350, did to correct some low-speed slides. In one instance I pulled out from a stop sign (from one unplowed road to another) and the vehicle started to oversteer. I immediately managed the slide with counter-steering and I remained on the throttle slightly to keep from exacerbating the oversteer by shifting weight to the front end of the vehicle. I had also hoped that the AWD system would transfer torque to the front axle. The GS had almost completely stopped its yawing motion and was stored out before the stability control intervened.
This stability control calibration is desirable if you're a journalist sliding a car, which you don't own, around Laguna Seca, but it is less so when you're driving your $60,000 car home from work. I know this calibration was done to appease enthusiasts, which I consider myself to be, but different driver-selectable calibration options would be a nice feature. The GS was set to Normal mode; nothing had been disabled or decreased with a Sport or Sport + setting. The vehicle was also configured in Snow mode.
It is not possible to have rev-matched downshifts without a more sensitive throttle calibration. If I wanted to use engine braking to decease my speed, and have rev-matched downshifts to avoid upsetting the vehicle's balance, I was forced in to Sport model. Sport mode brings along a more sensistive throttle calibration which is undesirable in low traction situations. I don't know why I would ever not want rev-matched downshifts, but those are only available when using Sport or Sport + modes.
I encountered a "bucking" or "drivetrain lash" in second gear while creeping the vehicle to a stop. Even with the throttle held to a fixed point, the GS seemed to modulate the throttle on and off anyway. Perhaps this is a consequence of the right pedal making "suggestions" to the ECU on what the "meatbag" piloting the vehicle wants. I've become accustomed to mechanical throttle linkages over the years which truly enact what I want in real time using low-tech cables. I have yet to find an electronic throttle which comes close to that feeling, though the Lexus does a fairly good impression most of the time.
The heated windshield wiper element are a nice touch, but they turn themselves off after 10 or 15 minutes or so. To enable them once more it is necessary to enter the menu, select climate, and push the on-screen button. This is a hassle while driving in the snow.
Overall, I found the GS to be mediocre in the snow; though I will admit the latest snow created unusually low-traction environments due to the extreme cold. I felt my last vehicle, a 2012 Ford Edge Sport was more "confident" in low-traction situations despite its "inferior" FWD-based AWD system. Its 22 inch wheels were festooned with Pirelli Scoprion Zero tires which are fairly well regarded. That vehicle was almost impossible to get out of sorts, including understeer, which you might otherwise expect. Perhaps a tire swap would make a world of difference on the GS 350.
Last edited by Outrage; 01-26-13 at 05:19 AM.
01-26-13, 05:18 AM
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01-26-13, 06:16 AM
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i have an awd (with snow mode) and it is amazing. no problems here.
also, going from a 500hp rear wheel drive z06 anything is going to be performing better in the winter.
also, going from a 500hp rear wheel drive z06 anything is going to be performing better in the winter.
01-26-13, 08:04 AM
#5
My region received a new layer of snow yesterday. Here are some of my observations from driving my Lexus GS 350 AWD in the snow this season.
The Dunlop SP Sport 5100 tries are mediocre. I have not been impressed by the Dunlop tires installed on my vehicle. In normal driving they have a harsh ride, yet, that does not pay off with higher level of grip. The Dunlops' traction in the snow is middling, at best, when compared to other all-season tires.
The stability control system does not interviene quickly or often. I've only recently begun driving vehicles with stability control system. Most of the vehicles I have driven up to this point have had no driving assist aids (one had ABS). I was surprised how little the stability control system, equipped on the GS 350, did to correct some low-speed slides. In one instance I pulled out from a stop sign (from one unplowed road to another) and the vehicle started to oversteer. I immediately managed the slide with counter-steering and I remained on the throttle slightly to keep from exacerbating the oversteer by shifting weight to the front end of the vehicle. I had also hoped that the AWD system would transfer torque to the front axle. The GS had almost completely stopped its yawing motion and was stored out before the stability control intervened.
This stability control calibration is desirable if you're a journalist sliding a car, which you don't own, around Laguna Seca, but it is less so when you're driving your $60,000 car home from work. I know this calibration was done to appease enthusiasts, which I consider myself to be, but different driver-selectable calibration options would be a nice feature. The GS was set to Normal mode; nothing had been disabled or decreased with a Sport or Sport + setting. The vehicle was also configured in Snow mode.
It is not possible to have rev-matched downshifts without a more sensitive throttle calibration. If I wanted to use engine braking to decease my speed, and have rev-matched downshifts to avoid upsetting the vehicle's balance, I was forced in to Sport model. Sport mode brings along a more sensistive throttle calibration which is undesirable in low traction situations. I don't know why I would ever not want rev-matched downshifts, but those are only available when using Sport or Sport + modes.
I encountered a "bucking" or "drivetrain lash" in second gear while creeping the vehicle to a stop. Even with the throttle held to a fixed point, the GS seemed to modulate the throttle on and off anyway. Perhaps this is a consequence of the right pedal making "suggestions" to the ECU on what the "meatbag" piloting the vehicle wants. I've become accustomed to mechanical throttle linkages over the years which truly enact what I want in real time using low-tech cables. I have yet to find an electronic throttle which comes close to that feeling, though the Lexus does a fairly good impression most of the time.
The heated windshield wiper element are a nice touch, but they turn themselves off after 10 or 15 minutes or so. To enable them once more it is necessary to enter the menu, select climate, and push the on-screen button. This is a hassle while driving in the snow.
Overall, I found the GS to be mediocre in the snow; though I will admit the latest snow created unusually low-traction environments due to the extreme cold. I felt my last vehicle, a 2012 Ford Edge Sport was more "confident" in low-traction situations despite its "inferior" FWD-based AWD system. Its 22 inch wheels were festooned with Pirelli Scoprion Zero tires which are fairly well regarded. That vehicle was almost impossible to get out of sorts, including understeer, which you might otherwise expect. Perhaps a tire swap would make a world of difference on the GS 350.
The Dunlop SP Sport 5100 tries are mediocre. I have not been impressed by the Dunlop tires installed on my vehicle. In normal driving they have a harsh ride, yet, that does not pay off with higher level of grip. The Dunlops' traction in the snow is middling, at best, when compared to other all-season tires.
The stability control system does not interviene quickly or often. I've only recently begun driving vehicles with stability control system. Most of the vehicles I have driven up to this point have had no driving assist aids (one had ABS). I was surprised how little the stability control system, equipped on the GS 350, did to correct some low-speed slides. In one instance I pulled out from a stop sign (from one unplowed road to another) and the vehicle started to oversteer. I immediately managed the slide with counter-steering and I remained on the throttle slightly to keep from exacerbating the oversteer by shifting weight to the front end of the vehicle. I had also hoped that the AWD system would transfer torque to the front axle. The GS had almost completely stopped its yawing motion and was stored out before the stability control intervened.
This stability control calibration is desirable if you're a journalist sliding a car, which you don't own, around Laguna Seca, but it is less so when you're driving your $60,000 car home from work. I know this calibration was done to appease enthusiasts, which I consider myself to be, but different driver-selectable calibration options would be a nice feature. The GS was set to Normal mode; nothing had been disabled or decreased with a Sport or Sport + setting. The vehicle was also configured in Snow mode.
It is not possible to have rev-matched downshifts without a more sensitive throttle calibration. If I wanted to use engine braking to decease my speed, and have rev-matched downshifts to avoid upsetting the vehicle's balance, I was forced in to Sport model. Sport mode brings along a more sensistive throttle calibration which is undesirable in low traction situations. I don't know why I would ever not want rev-matched downshifts, but those are only available when using Sport or Sport + modes.
I encountered a "bucking" or "drivetrain lash" in second gear while creeping the vehicle to a stop. Even with the throttle held to a fixed point, the GS seemed to modulate the throttle on and off anyway. Perhaps this is a consequence of the right pedal making "suggestions" to the ECU on what the "meatbag" piloting the vehicle wants. I've become accustomed to mechanical throttle linkages over the years which truly enact what I want in real time using low-tech cables. I have yet to find an electronic throttle which comes close to that feeling, though the Lexus does a fairly good impression most of the time.
The heated windshield wiper element are a nice touch, but they turn themselves off after 10 or 15 minutes or so. To enable them once more it is necessary to enter the menu, select climate, and push the on-screen button. This is a hassle while driving in the snow.
Overall, I found the GS to be mediocre in the snow; though I will admit the latest snow created unusually low-traction environments due to the extreme cold. I felt my last vehicle, a 2012 Ford Edge Sport was more "confident" in low-traction situations despite its "inferior" FWD-based AWD system. Its 22 inch wheels were festooned with Pirelli Scoprion Zero tires which are fairly well regarded. That vehicle was almost impossible to get out of sorts, including understeer, which you might otherwise expect. Perhaps a tire swap would make a world of difference on the GS 350.
Sorry you feel this way but my experience is 100% the opposite with my 2013 GS350 F-sport AWD in normal mode. Here is why: I have 18 inch rims with Michelin Pilot Alpin Pa4 tires and it makes my car a snow cat literally. I drive fast in few inches of snow and make turns faster and allow my rear end to skid a bit but the traction help bring it into correct position, Braking is excellent with minimal ABS intervention. Take off is smooth and linear with no hesitation. I dont even have to use the SNOW mode. The ride is supple and smooth. Dunlops are all seasons and they are poorly rated on tire rack. They will get hard with colder temp, wear faster, and give mediocre traction. Make the change to Michelin tires this summer. There is the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 coming this july. Check it out on michelin website or put it in googel and you will be amazed at what they are saying about the handling and traction.
01-26-13, 09:33 AM
#6
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We also had a few inches of snow. Didn't get to drive the GS in it heavily, but we did go out to dinner last night and the restaurant had an unplowed parking lot, that lot has a big hill you have to go up to get to the back part of the lot, the GS went up it like a champ.
Doesn't really surprise me that your Edge was better in the snow. The Lexus' system is more designed towards providing better handling than traction, and tires are SO important when it comes to winter traction whether you're talking about a sedan with AWD or an SUV.
Doesn't really surprise me that your Edge was better in the snow. The Lexus' system is more designed towards providing better handling than traction, and tires are SO important when it comes to winter traction whether you're talking about a sedan with AWD or an SUV.
01-26-13, 10:46 AM
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Sorry you feel this way but my experience is 100% the opposite with my 2013 GS350 F-sport AWD in normal mode. Here is why: I have 18 inch rims with Michelin Pilot Alpin Pa4 tires and it makes my car a snow cat literally. I drive fast in few inches of snow and make turns faster and allow my rear end to skid a bit but the traction help bring it into correct position, Braking is excellent with minimal ABS intervention. Take off is smooth and linear with no hesitation. I dont even have to use the SNOW mode. The ride is supple and smooth. Dunlops are all seasons and they are poorly rated on tire rack. They will get hard with colder temp, wear faster, and give mediocre traction. Make the change to Michelin tires this summer. There is the new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3 coming this july. Check it out on michelin website or put it in googel and you will be amazed at what they are saying about the handling and traction.
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01-26-13, 11:06 AM
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Looks like the Alpin PA4 tires are great all season tires. The A/S 3 looks awesome! I hope they come in the 235 40r 19s because that would be perfect for the gs350 f sport AWD. The PSS are great tires so it's cool to hear that they've extended it's lineage to include all season performance.
01-26-13, 12:19 PM
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Thanks for the clarification. The Michelin site does mention using the A/S 3 under snowy conditions which I would think would be ok for us in Northern Californians who may go up to Tahoe or the Sierras for a ski trip 3-4 times during the winter. I assume these wouldn't be great tires for one living in full time heavy snow conditions? My memory is fuzzy, but I was born in Royal Oak, but my family moved to California in the late 70s when I was 7 years old. I remember lots of snow!
01-26-13, 01:39 PM
#10
Thanks for the clarification. The Michelin site does mention using the A/S 3 under snowy conditions which I would think would be ok for us in Northern Californians who may go up to Tahoe or the Sierras for a ski trip 3-4 times during the winter. I assume these wouldn't be great tires for one living in full time heavy snow conditions? My memory is fuzzy, but I was born in Royal Oak, but my family moved to California in the late 70s when I was 7 years old. I remember lots of snow!
Royal Oak i 15 min from Bloomfield Hills which is where I live and lately in the past 5-10 years its barely any snow during Dec/Jan. Right now we only had 4-5 inch of snow total this winter and it will become 50s this Mon-Wed. Global warming has really affected the weather here. I was born in the early 80s so I have seen a big change in winter weather here since then. Its not that bad anymore.
01-26-13, 01:57 PM
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The Pilot Sport A/S3 will be perfect for you in California but not to be used in deep snow in Tahoe or Sierras. I rather take an SUV.
Royal Oak i 15 min from Bloomfield Hills which is where I live and lately in the past 5-10 years its barely any snow during Dec/Jan. Right now we only had 4-5 inch of snow total this winter and it will become 50s this Mon-Wed. Global warming has really affected the weather here. I was born in the early 80s so I have seen a big change in winter weather here since then. Its not that bad anymore.
Royal Oak i 15 min from Bloomfield Hills which is where I live and lately in the past 5-10 years its barely any snow during Dec/Jan. Right now we only had 4-5 inch of snow total this winter and it will become 50s this Mon-Wed. Global warming has really affected the weather here. I was born in the early 80s so I have seen a big change in winter weather here since then. Its not that bad anymore.
01-28-13, 07:32 AM
#12
Michelins Alpin PA4 snow tires are a must!! They completely change the snow driving experience, with huge gains in confidence & predictability during the winter months. I have a blast doing snow drifts & donuts, in remote locations to test out grip & traction threshold. The 4GS is a tank in the snow, you're able to drive nearly the same way in the summer, & it will also annoy you that people drive 10-20mph below speed limit. There's so much traction that snow mode is seldomly used, conversely I have Sport/Sport+ mode on all the time. Here we can get 6" of snow every couple of days, or even days where it will warm up & be a slushy day, while the temperature the following day can reach sub-zero & turn the roads to an ice rink.
Regardless of tire brands, if your area does get snow, winter/snow tire is a must.
Regardless of tire brands, if your area does get snow, winter/snow tire is a must.
01-29-13, 06:00 AM
#13
Outrage, i'm also in PA (Western) and was out in the snow trying my level best to actually get anywhere since there seemed to be so much inability or incompetence in my way. I have blizzaks on my GS and the car is actually fine in the snow. This is my 2nd GS AWD and both of them were actually quite good in adverse weather. It's clearly not as good as some of past cars, such as my Subarus, my GMC Yukon, my 4Runner, etc. but given a set of tires appropriate to the weather conditions, it is well beyond acceptable.
01-29-13, 03:08 PM
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I found the Dunlops to have exceptional wet performance -- better then any tire I've ever had in the past. I also did not have any problems in the little snow that recently fell on the DC area, but I didn't do much snow driving. This is in my rear-wheel-drive GS450h
01-29-13, 06:58 PM
#15
Racer
any car can spin out in the snow, doesnt matter what tires or drivetrain you have. if u drive carelessly, it will spin out. I can make my gx spin out easily with all the safety features on. its even gotten stuck on ice once, so no car/suv is perfect