Itching to hear more about the GS460 (1SICK prediction, 400hp on the way)
05-29-05, 03:46 PM
#16
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Originally Posted by XeroK00L
The hybrid GS is based on the 3.5L V6, not the 4.3L V8, so I don't think it'll weigh 250 lbs more than the GS430.
Since we know:
1. The RX400h weighs 300 lbs more than the RX330 AWD (some of the extra weight comes from the additional standard equipment, but we'll ignore that for now).
2. The GS300 weighs 3,536 lbs
3. The GS430 weighs 3,748 lbs
4. The base Crown Royal 3.0 weighs 30 kg (66 lbs) more than the base 2.5, with the only difference being the extra 500 c.c. displacement in the GR engine.
We can therefore deduce that the hybrid GS, based on the 3.5L GR engine, will weigh approximately 3,536 + 66 + 300 lbs = 3,902 lbs, or 3,902 - 3,748 = 154 lbs more than the GS430.
True... with carefully thought-out battery placements, they can not only lower the center of gravity but also balace the front-to-rear weight distribution. So the additional weight may not necessarily be a bad thing.
Since we know:
1. The RX400h weighs 300 lbs more than the RX330 AWD (some of the extra weight comes from the additional standard equipment, but we'll ignore that for now).
2. The GS300 weighs 3,536 lbs
3. The GS430 weighs 3,748 lbs
4. The base Crown Royal 3.0 weighs 30 kg (66 lbs) more than the base 2.5, with the only difference being the extra 500 c.c. displacement in the GR engine.
We can therefore deduce that the hybrid GS, based on the 3.5L GR engine, will weigh approximately 3,536 + 66 + 300 lbs = 3,902 lbs, or 3,902 - 3,748 = 154 lbs more than the GS430.
True... with carefully thought-out battery placements, they can not only lower the center of gravity but also balace the front-to-rear weight distribution. So the additional weight may not necessarily be a bad thing.
05-30-05, 08:24 AM
#17
Lexus Test Driver
Handling can be affected by anything. There are sports cars out today which handle like crap because they are not properly designed.
Lexus will place components carefully (with the assistance of computers) to determine exactly how much they intend to affect balance and thereby handling. Anything that is done will be done with advanced notice by the computers which give them an excellent picture before the first piece of steel is cut.
Also remember they don't have to simply add components and leave the rest of the vehicle intact. Lexus will be in a position to move some components around to place batteries and motors without negatively impacting balance. I agree with you Xero in that some additional low placed weight can actually improve things and make the car stick to the ground better with less lean.
Regarding braking, the RX400H still uses disc brakes with regenerative function of the electric motors simple work in conjuction to reclaim energy which would otherwise be lost. Tuning the brakes to use more of the disc and less of the electric generator is something that will be carefully taken into consideration to ensure safe braking for a fast heavy vehicle.
Lexus will place components carefully (with the assistance of computers) to determine exactly how much they intend to affect balance and thereby handling. Anything that is done will be done with advanced notice by the computers which give them an excellent picture before the first piece of steel is cut.
Also remember they don't have to simply add components and leave the rest of the vehicle intact. Lexus will be in a position to move some components around to place batteries and motors without negatively impacting balance. I agree with you Xero in that some additional low placed weight can actually improve things and make the car stick to the ground better with less lean.
Regarding braking, the RX400H still uses disc brakes with regenerative function of the electric motors simple work in conjuction to reclaim energy which would otherwise be lost. Tuning the brakes to use more of the disc and less of the electric generator is something that will be carefully taken into consideration to ensure safe braking for a fast heavy vehicle.
05-30-05, 10:32 PM
#18
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I apologize if i have offened any of my fellow members, and thank for correcting me about what i said when i said that i spock for everyone just the ones that agree with how i felt about lexus not being up to date with there 06 GS430 thats all. I do hope that the 460 will have 350 hp or better 400hp, and would be more reasonable with infinte,bmw, and mercedes. The reason i choose lexus over bmw m series or mercedes amg is because i am not comfodient that reliablility, quality ,and brand is up to lexus sure i'm alittle hp crazy but lexus is the choice for me.
05-31-05, 07:24 AM
#19
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UIhhh - you did speak for me...
I'm in the same boat with you.
I bought my 2GS because it was the type of car winning the enthusiasts’ magazine comparos back in '98 and '99 (and I'm not talking about Consumer Reports, etc.) I'm "that" type of driver. The capability for speed - whether I use it or not - matters to me. $ for $ I'll trade luxury for speed.
The 2GS was winning those contests, awards, etc, because it was "the" world's fastest sedan with an automatic tranny. The 3GS is a wonderful car but Lexus made the distinct decision regarding their withdrawal from the Hp wars (after beginning it with the 2GS).
I'm hoping the 4.6 brings the performance edge back to Lexus. Until that occurs, I'm having a difficult time parting with $30K-$40K for a 3GS4 (assuming I get $20K for my '99 GS4 trade)
Here's what currently appeals to me...
Jag S-Type R: 396hp - 2004s for low $40s
300C SRT-8: 425hp - New for low $40s
Upcoming STS-V: 430hp - $75est (I'll wait for the depreciation)
CTS-V: 400hp - 2004s for mid to high 30s
Eric
I bought my 2GS because it was the type of car winning the enthusiasts’ magazine comparos back in '98 and '99 (and I'm not talking about Consumer Reports, etc.) I'm "that" type of driver. The capability for speed - whether I use it or not - matters to me. $ for $ I'll trade luxury for speed.
The 2GS was winning those contests, awards, etc, because it was "the" world's fastest sedan with an automatic tranny. The 3GS is a wonderful car but Lexus made the distinct decision regarding their withdrawal from the Hp wars (after beginning it with the 2GS).
I'm hoping the 4.6 brings the performance edge back to Lexus. Until that occurs, I'm having a difficult time parting with $30K-$40K for a 3GS4 (assuming I get $20K for my '99 GS4 trade)
Here's what currently appeals to me...
Jag S-Type R: 396hp - 2004s for low $40s
300C SRT-8: 425hp - New for low $40s
Upcoming STS-V: 430hp - $75est (I'll wait for the depreciation)
CTS-V: 400hp - 2004s for mid to high 30s
Eric
05-31-05, 10:05 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by Shogun
I'm in the same boat with you.
I bought my 2GS because it was the type of car winning the enthusiasts’ magazine comparos back in '98 and '99 (and I'm not talking about Consumer Reports, etc.) I'm "that" type of driver. The capability for speed - whether I use it or not - matters to me. $ for $ I'll trade luxury for speed.
The 2GS was winning those contests, awards, etc, because it was "the" world's fastest sedan with an automatic tranny. The 3GS is a wonderful car but Lexus made the distinct decision regarding their withdrawal from the Hp wars (after beginning it with the 2GS).
I'm hoping the 4.6 brings the performance edge back to Lexus. Until that occurs, I'm having a difficult time parting with $30K-$40K for a 3GS4 (assuming I get $20K for my '99 GS4 trade)
Here's what currently appeals to me...
Jag S-Type R: 396hp - 2004s for low $40s
300C SRT-8: 425hp - New for low $40s
Upcoming STS-V: 430hp - $75est (I'll wait for the depreciation)
CTS-V: 400hp - 2004s for mid to high 30s
Eric
I bought my 2GS because it was the type of car winning the enthusiasts’ magazine comparos back in '98 and '99 (and I'm not talking about Consumer Reports, etc.) I'm "that" type of driver. The capability for speed - whether I use it or not - matters to me. $ for $ I'll trade luxury for speed.
The 2GS was winning those contests, awards, etc, because it was "the" world's fastest sedan with an automatic tranny. The 3GS is a wonderful car but Lexus made the distinct decision regarding their withdrawal from the Hp wars (after beginning it with the 2GS).
I'm hoping the 4.6 brings the performance edge back to Lexus. Until that occurs, I'm having a difficult time parting with $30K-$40K for a 3GS4 (assuming I get $20K for my '99 GS4 trade)
Here's what currently appeals to me...
Jag S-Type R: 396hp - 2004s for low $40s
300C SRT-8: 425hp - New for low $40s
Upcoming STS-V: 430hp - $75est (I'll wait for the depreciation)
CTS-V: 400hp - 2004s for mid to high 30s
Eric
06-12-05, 04:18 PM
#21
p.s. just to point out - that mag article that was pointed out is COMPLETLY wrong in a sense that only 100hp electric will be used. That is actually so freaking funny to see since obviously author has not clue about wtf he is writing in major magazine. It also makes you wonder about all those reviews.
First of all, so far we know 2 facts about HSD:
- Gasoline engine is optimized, its weight has been reduced by removing things not longer needed (like VVTi in 3.3l MZ engine), so it will be detuned for maximum fuel efficiency. Both 1.5l in Prius and 3.3l in RX have been detuned power wise.
- Toyota is relying more and more to electric engines for speed and efficiency - Prius is using 67hp, while RX400h is using 3 engines, 2 of which providing power (167hp & 67hp) to the wheels.
So, there is no way in hell that LSh will be making 500hp from 400hp in gas engine (since it will be detuned from whatever it ends up being in 4.6l) and 100hp will mean huge step backwards from RX400h in electric engines.
Just wanted to point that out.
Another thing to point would be an response.jp cover with next gen Supra, with 4.6l V8 390hp engine. Thats sounds actually quite ok for worked up 4.6l V8, so "normal" version might be anywhere from 350hp-390hp.
Now, while I understand US obsession with HP, I really do not know what would 95% of people do with 400hp ONLY LS460. That makes NO sense to me at all, it seems like a lot more than what most people might be able to handle - is it going to have an "slow" button?
If they make LS460 with 390 or 400hp, then for sure they will also make LS350 with 310hp, which will be more than enough for everyone, and in this day and age, people will appreciate fuel savings.
I also find it interesting how people have learned to appreciate qualities for GS300 such awesome MPG, and how some are now questioning GS350 (and I think 99% of people, previously, have though that GS300 is underpowered, for whatever reason 245hp might be "underpowered").
You also have to take a look at targetted demographics - 95% of Lexus GS, LS and even targetted IS buyers are NOT 16-20yr old magazine racers. Good example are BMW buyers, where >70% of 3 series sold are sold with 2.5l engine. Now imagine new IS250, with awesome fuel consumption and you will see why it has "only" 200hp.
First of all, so far we know 2 facts about HSD:
- Gasoline engine is optimized, its weight has been reduced by removing things not longer needed (like VVTi in 3.3l MZ engine), so it will be detuned for maximum fuel efficiency. Both 1.5l in Prius and 3.3l in RX have been detuned power wise.
- Toyota is relying more and more to electric engines for speed and efficiency - Prius is using 67hp, while RX400h is using 3 engines, 2 of which providing power (167hp & 67hp) to the wheels.
So, there is no way in hell that LSh will be making 500hp from 400hp in gas engine (since it will be detuned from whatever it ends up being in 4.6l) and 100hp will mean huge step backwards from RX400h in electric engines.
Just wanted to point that out.
Another thing to point would be an response.jp cover with next gen Supra, with 4.6l V8 390hp engine. Thats sounds actually quite ok for worked up 4.6l V8, so "normal" version might be anywhere from 350hp-390hp.
Now, while I understand US obsession with HP, I really do not know what would 95% of people do with 400hp ONLY LS460. That makes NO sense to me at all, it seems like a lot more than what most people might be able to handle - is it going to have an "slow" button?
If they make LS460 with 390 or 400hp, then for sure they will also make LS350 with 310hp, which will be more than enough for everyone, and in this day and age, people will appreciate fuel savings.
I also find it interesting how people have learned to appreciate qualities for GS300 such awesome MPG, and how some are now questioning GS350 (and I think 99% of people, previously, have though that GS300 is underpowered, for whatever reason 245hp might be "underpowered").
You also have to take a look at targetted demographics - 95% of Lexus GS, LS and even targetted IS buyers are NOT 16-20yr old magazine racers. Good example are BMW buyers, where >70% of 3 series sold are sold with 2.5l engine. Now imagine new IS250, with awesome fuel consumption and you will see why it has "only" 200hp.
06-13-05, 05:45 AM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Originally Posted by Ex996
jeez, I just like the sound of a V8 engine. Is that so wrong?
04-10-06, 07:17 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by 1SICKLEX
In all honesty we know nothing but speculation. But think about this.
The current GS with "only"
300hp/325 lbs torque is one of the fastest in class. Its also the quietest engine and the most fuel efiicient. It has VVti, not dual VVTi and does not have direct injection. Then the engine will grow from 4.3 to 4.6 liters. We are pretty sure the IS 350/GS 350 has at least 315hp, which is 15 more than the GS.
319 (the rumored number)/3.5=91.1 hp a liter
Excuse my math but with this same HP per liter multipled by 4.6 equals 419hp.
Okay that makes no sense.
But what is scary and what is reasonable to say if with NEW technology 400hp is now, gulp, dare I say very feasible?
And I cannot see Lexus going ALL OUT in the HP war with the IS350 and letting the GS take it in the HP butt. It makes no sense. With the BMW 550 having around 360hp when it gets upgraded, well if Lexus has more power in the IS 350 to the 330, then I can see a GS 460 having 400hp. It just makes sense at that point.
Also, Lexus has PROMISED, the next LS will make a BANG like it did in 1990. It is the FLAGSHIP of the line.Benz is also upgrading engines. Even though with only 290hp, the LS is near fastest in class, that number will no longer do. Since the LS and GS will both be a 460, well, see how 400hp sounds almost reasonable?
Finally the GS 450h ALREADY starts with the 3.5 engine. Detuned, like in the Avalon, it makes 280hp. So EVEN with 280hp PLUS electic motors, 350hp is very easy to make. If they use the 319hp full rating of the new 3.5, well 350hp would be underated. The reason I think they will use the detuned engine is b/c the RX 400h uses a detuned 201hp V-6 (3.3)
So boysz and girls, my bold predicition. The 400hp GS 460 and LS 460.
The current GS with "only"
300hp/325 lbs torque is one of the fastest in class. Its also the quietest engine and the most fuel efiicient. It has VVti, not dual VVTi and does not have direct injection. Then the engine will grow from 4.3 to 4.6 liters. We are pretty sure the IS 350/GS 350 has at least 315hp, which is 15 more than the GS. 319 (the rumored number)/3.5=91.1 hp a liter
Excuse my math but with this same HP per liter multipled by 4.6 equals 419hp.
Okay that makes no sense.
But what is scary and what is reasonable to say if with NEW technology 400hp is now, gulp, dare I say very feasible?
And I cannot see Lexus going ALL OUT in the HP war with the IS350 and letting the GS take it in the HP butt. It makes no sense. With the BMW 550 having around 360hp when it gets upgraded, well if Lexus has more power in the IS 350 to the 330, then I can see a GS 460 having 400hp. It just makes sense at that point.
Also, Lexus has PROMISED, the next LS will make a BANG like it did in 1990. It is the FLAGSHIP of the line.Benz is also upgrading engines. Even though with only 290hp, the LS is near fastest in class, that number will no longer do. Since the LS and GS will both be a 460, well, see how 400hp sounds almost reasonable?
Finally the GS 450h ALREADY starts with the 3.5 engine. Detuned, like in the Avalon, it makes 280hp. So EVEN with 280hp PLUS electic motors, 350hp is very easy to make. If they use the 319hp full rating of the new 3.5, well 350hp would be underated. The reason I think they will use the detuned engine is b/c the RX 400h uses a detuned 201hp V-6 (3.3)
So boysz and girls, my bold predicition. The 400hp GS 460 and LS 460.
04-10-06, 08:36 PM
#25
Lexus Test Driver
Now imagine one year from now looking at an LS600hL with a
5.0 V8 plus electric motors that sends torque to both ends at once and launches to 60 in under 5 seconds! What a chine that will be...
Rock
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