ES330 & Avalon, no point to the ES
02-07-05, 05:16 PM
#1
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
ES330 & Avalon, no point to the ES
Not to like keep the ES330 down in any kind of way, but whats the point of the ES now that the new Avalon is out? I mean that the Avalon is about the same size of the LS430, has more power than the ES, more room, better features, and probably alot more. I'm sure that the Avalon ultimately drives a lot like a Lexus ES330… only bigger and more powerful. The Avalon makes the Lexus ES330 wholly redundant. It’s more like Toyota one-upping Lexus.
So the Avalon drives at least as nicely as the Lexus ES330, has more room, is more powerful, gets better fuel mileage, and can be equipped just as lavishly. And yet the Lexus carries a $31,975 base price that’s more than any Avalon except the Limited? That makes no sense. Because the Avalon isn’t just a better car than the ES330, it’s a better Lexus.
I think that the Avalon will now be compared to the Acura TL, but i know im just thinkin' but i hope this new Avalon wont be a mistake and knock the ES's sales off.
So the Avalon drives at least as nicely as the Lexus ES330, has more room, is more powerful, gets better fuel mileage, and can be equipped just as lavishly. And yet the Lexus carries a $31,975 base price that’s more than any Avalon except the Limited? That makes no sense. Because the Avalon isn’t just a better car than the ES330, it’s a better Lexus.
I think that the Avalon will now be compared to the Acura TL, but i know im just thinkin' but i hope this new Avalon wont be a mistake and knock the ES's sales off.
02-07-05, 05:19 PM
#2
Originally Posted by AJL0365
Not to like keep the ES330 down in any kind of way, but whats the point of the ES now that the new Avalon is out? I mean that the Avalon is about the same size of the LS430, has more power than the ES, more room, better features, and probably alot more. I'm sure that the Avalon ultimately drives a lot like a Lexus ES330… only bigger and more powerful. The Avalon makes the Lexus ES330 wholly redundant. It’s more like Toyota one-upping Lexus.
So the Avalon drives at least as nicely as the Lexus ES330, has more room, is more powerful, gets better fuel mileage, and can be equipped just as lavishly. And yet the Lexus carries a $31,975 base price that’s more than any Avalon except the Limited? That makes no sense. Because the Avalon isn’t just a better car than the ES330, it’s a better Lexus.
I think that the Avalon will now be compared to the Acura TL, but i know im just thinkin' but i hope this new Avalon wont be a mistake and knock the ES's sales off.
So the Avalon drives at least as nicely as the Lexus ES330, has more room, is more powerful, gets better fuel mileage, and can be equipped just as lavishly. And yet the Lexus carries a $31,975 base price that’s more than any Avalon except the Limited? That makes no sense. Because the Avalon isn’t just a better car than the ES330, it’s a better Lexus.
I think that the Avalon will now be compared to the Acura TL, but i know im just thinkin' but i hope this new Avalon wont be a mistake and knock the ES's sales off.
isnt the new avalon coming in 06? i thought the es330 was going to be redesigned for 06 as well..
02-07-05, 05:34 PM
#4
Might want to check your facts there...
Here's a list of incoming avalons to one dealer...
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door Sedan Desert Sand Mica w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the
following additional options: Dynamic Cruise Control, Voice Activated DVD System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist. The Internet Sales price on this vehicle is $37,395
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door sedan Phantom Gray Pearl w/ Dark Leather Trim and the following additional options: Dynamic Cruise Control, Voice Activated DVD Navigation System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control and Brake Assist. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $37,230.
2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 4-door sedan Blue Mirage Metallic w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the following additional options: JBL Synthesis AM/FM/Cassette/6-Disc in dash CD Changer w/ 12 speakers (360 watts), Vehicle Stability Control, with Traction Control, and Brake Assist, and heated front seats. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $33,235.
2005 Toyota Avalon Touring Edition 4-door sedan Cassis Red Pearl w/ Dark Charcoal Leather Trim and the following additional options: Anti-Theft System, Power Moonroof with Sliding Sunshade, AM/FM/Cassette/ 6-Disc in dash CD Changer, Touring Package. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $30,684
2005 Toyota Avalon XL 4-door sedan Silver Pine Mica w/ Beige Cloth Interior and the following additional options: Anti-Theft System, Power Moonroof w/ Sliding Sunshade, AM/FM/Cassette/6-disc in dash CD Changer, and Rear Spoiler. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $28,783.
Incoming Avalon’s to Chantilly
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door sedan Black w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the following additional options: Dynamic Laser Cruise Control, Voice Activated Navigation System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist. The MSRP on this vehicle is $37,230.
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door sedan Phantom Gray Pearl w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the following additional options: Dynamic Laser Cruise Control, Voice Activated Navigation System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist and Wheel Locks. The MSRP on this vehicle is $37,289.
2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 4-door sedan Titanium Metallic w/ Stone Leather Trim and the following options: JBL Synthesis AM/FM/Cassette/6-disc in dash CD Changer w/ 12 speakers (360 watts), Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist and Heated Front Seats, and Wheel Locks. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $33,129.
$31,975 for a base ES sounds better to me.
Here's a list of incoming avalons to one dealer...
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door Sedan Desert Sand Mica w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the
following additional options: Dynamic Cruise Control, Voice Activated DVD System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist. The Internet Sales price on this vehicle is $37,395
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door sedan Phantom Gray Pearl w/ Dark Leather Trim and the following additional options: Dynamic Cruise Control, Voice Activated DVD Navigation System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control and Brake Assist. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $37,230.
2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 4-door sedan Blue Mirage Metallic w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the following additional options: JBL Synthesis AM/FM/Cassette/6-Disc in dash CD Changer w/ 12 speakers (360 watts), Vehicle Stability Control, with Traction Control, and Brake Assist, and heated front seats. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $33,235.
2005 Toyota Avalon Touring Edition 4-door sedan Cassis Red Pearl w/ Dark Charcoal Leather Trim and the following additional options: Anti-Theft System, Power Moonroof with Sliding Sunshade, AM/FM/Cassette/ 6-Disc in dash CD Changer, Touring Package. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $30,684
2005 Toyota Avalon XL 4-door sedan Silver Pine Mica w/ Beige Cloth Interior and the following additional options: Anti-Theft System, Power Moonroof w/ Sliding Sunshade, AM/FM/Cassette/6-disc in dash CD Changer, and Rear Spoiler. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $28,783.
Incoming Avalon’s to Chantilly
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door sedan Black w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the following additional options: Dynamic Laser Cruise Control, Voice Activated Navigation System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist. The MSRP on this vehicle is $37,230.
2005 Toyota Avalon Limited 4-door sedan Phantom Gray Pearl w/ Ivory Leather Trim and the following additional options: Dynamic Laser Cruise Control, Voice Activated Navigation System, Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist and Wheel Locks. The MSRP on this vehicle is $37,289.
2005 Toyota Avalon XLS 4-door sedan Titanium Metallic w/ Stone Leather Trim and the following options: JBL Synthesis AM/FM/Cassette/6-disc in dash CD Changer w/ 12 speakers (360 watts), Vehicle Stability Control and Traction Control with Brake Assist and Heated Front Seats, and Wheel Locks. The Internet Sales Price on this vehicle is $33,129.
$31,975 for a base ES sounds better to me.
02-07-05, 05:41 PM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
nah the avalon starts sales this month, i dont think the es will be redesigned, maybe some upgrades for 06, but major redesign isnt dure till 07' i think
02-07-05, 05:45 PM
#6
Lexus Test Driver
Thread Starter
this is what im saying, 32, 725 or w/e for the ES as a base price, ES loaded with every option known will top it out to about 37k, u can get a limited avalon for that same price, plus a bigger interior room (car all together) better gas milage, performance, features, just what im saying is that i dont know about all yall, i think that toyota just made a car, better than a Lexus,
02-07-05, 05:57 PM
#7
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This could be wrong, but it's the way I see it anyway...my 2 cents if you like. To be honest, I don't really like the fact that many consider Toyota and Lexus to be the "same" if you like. Yes, Lexus is a Toyota product, but it's a different brand. Just like what Lincoln-Mercury, Aston Martin, Land Rover, Mazda, etc. are to Ford. So as far as I'm concerned, I think it's good to have something in the Lexus range for every one. Don't think it would be valid to drop the ES just becuase the Avalon is a "better" vehicle. They maybe simillar, but compete in different classes. 
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02-07-05, 06:27 PM
#8
I agree with FALCONLS. although Lexus is a Toyota product, the "Lexus" expirience is totally diffrent. The feel, the ownership.......... heck, even the clientele is diffrent.
I spent 4 years working for Toyota, and while they might be stepping up on there flagship sedan, Lexus is still uncomprable.
I spent 4 years working for Toyota, and while they might be stepping up on there flagship sedan, Lexus is still uncomprable.
02-08-05, 12:12 AM
#9
Pole Position
Originally Posted by AJL0365
Not to like keep the ES330 down in any kind of way, but whats the point of the ES now that the new Avalon is out? I mean that the Avalon is about the same size of the LS430, has more power than the ES, more room, better features, and probably alot more. I'm sure that the Avalon ultimately drives a lot like a Lexus ES330… only bigger and more powerful. The Avalon makes the Lexus ES330 wholly redundant. It’s more like Toyota one-upping Lexus.
So the Avalon drives at least as nicely as the Lexus ES330, has more room, is more powerful, gets better fuel mileage, and can be equipped just as lavishly. And yet the Lexus carries a $31,975 base price that’s more than any Avalon except the Limited? That makes no sense. Because the Avalon isn’t just a better car than the ES330, it’s a better Lexus.
I think that the Avalon will now be compared to the Acura TL, but i know im just thinkin' but i hope this new Avalon wont be a mistake and knock the ES's sales off.
So the Avalon drives at least as nicely as the Lexus ES330, has more room, is more powerful, gets better fuel mileage, and can be equipped just as lavishly. And yet the Lexus carries a $31,975 base price that’s more than any Avalon except the Limited? That makes no sense. Because the Avalon isn’t just a better car than the ES330, it’s a better Lexus.
I think that the Avalon will now be compared to the Acura TL, but i know im just thinkin' but i hope this new Avalon wont be a mistake and knock the ES's sales off.
02-08-05, 12:38 PM
#10
Lexus Connoisseur
Two different vehicles, two different target demographics.
02-10-05, 01:31 PM
#14
Guys... you beat me to it... It is INCREDIBLE how much buzz (and some anger) this car is making in the Luxury car world. I spend most of my time over on the Cadillac forum from my old days there even though I currently own an LS. Let me tell you, they are talking about it over there, I posted a great deal of info on it in the LS forum here https://www.clublexus.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=150655
To be totally honest, I was going to skip the ES forum altogether, because this car doesnt really just go up against the ES ladies and gentlemen, this car practically OUT features the LS(!) in MANY ways except for not having a V8, and even THEN, its got a 280hp V6, VS my LS's 290hp V8. Im sorry but you cant fully use the "Lexus ownership experience" to knock this Avalon. Personally, I think Toyota WAY overdid this car and is going to hurt the entire luxury industry when buyers from other brands, including their own Lexus, are going to flock to buy what is really a cheap steal.
For less than 40 grand you get:
-Terrific Navigation system
-360W JBL Synthesis audio system that makes my Mark Lev sound a little humble
-Xenon/HID Lights (sorely lacking in Toyota's)
-Heated and COOLED seats (!)
-Dynamic Laser Cruise control
-SMARTKEY SYSTEM
-Interior and materials that rival our Lexii
-280hp V6 with Tiptronic tranny
-MORE SPACE than the ES
-Optitron Gauges (really Toyota... WTF?)
etc etc...
I am really not happy about this... as a Lexus/Cadillac/BMW owner at any given time, I dont appreciate it when a company seemingly knocks down the image of MY car by flooding their latest pedestrian creation with every creature comfort on my car, PLUS more that I cant even get! Yes the industry and advances and features filter down, I understand this... but Toyota seemingly threw EVERY engineering feat they possibly could at this Avalon... and it truly IS a steal if you look very carefully. You cant get a FULLY loaded Ford Five Hundred or Mercury Montego for much less.
Heres an interesting thing to chew on... Except for SH-AWD, the new Acura RL doesnt really give you much more, doesnt really LOOK any better, and costs 13000.00 more with the same options.
One thing I can guarantee you... Someone is either going to get fired, or seriously promoted over this car.
To be totally honest, I was going to skip the ES forum altogether, because this car doesnt really just go up against the ES ladies and gentlemen, this car practically OUT features the LS(!) in MANY ways except for not having a V8, and even THEN, its got a 280hp V6, VS my LS's 290hp V8. Im sorry but you cant fully use the "Lexus ownership experience" to knock this Avalon. Personally, I think Toyota WAY overdid this car and is going to hurt the entire luxury industry when buyers from other brands, including their own Lexus, are going to flock to buy what is really a cheap steal.
For less than 40 grand you get:
-Terrific Navigation system
-360W JBL Synthesis audio system that makes my Mark Lev sound a little humble
-Xenon/HID Lights (sorely lacking in Toyota's)
-Heated and COOLED seats (!)
-Dynamic Laser Cruise control
-SMARTKEY SYSTEM
-Interior and materials that rival our Lexii
-280hp V6 with Tiptronic tranny
-MORE SPACE than the ES
-Optitron Gauges (really Toyota... WTF?)
etc etc...
I am really not happy about this... as a Lexus/Cadillac/BMW owner at any given time, I dont appreciate it when a company seemingly knocks down the image of MY car by flooding their latest pedestrian creation with every creature comfort on my car, PLUS more that I cant even get! Yes the industry and advances and features filter down, I understand this... but Toyota seemingly threw EVERY engineering feat they possibly could at this Avalon... and it truly IS a steal if you look very carefully. You cant get a FULLY loaded Ford Five Hundred or Mercury Montego for much less.
Heres an interesting thing to chew on... Except for SH-AWD, the new Acura RL doesnt really give you much more, doesnt really LOOK any better, and costs 13000.00 more with the same options.
One thing I can guarantee you... Someone is either going to get fired, or seriously promoted over this car.
Last edited by Playdrv4me; 02-10-05 at 05:32 PM.
02-10-05, 01:51 PM
#15
Racer
I fully agree but people will still buy the Lexus ES 330.
No matter how much people try to go around the issue the Avalon is a better car than the es330.
At this very moment.
What Two different vehicles, two different target demographics are you talking about? Please explain
I see no big different between the two cars other than that the Avalon offer more.
No matter how much people try to go around the issue the Avalon is a better car than the es330.
At this very moment.
What Two different vehicles, two different target demographics are you talking about? Please explain
I see no big different between the two cars other than that the Avalon offer more.