U.S. 2016 Lexus IS300 and RC300?
06-11-15, 08:06 AM
#31
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To have both a turbo and a V6 at 245 hp is not a bad idea if you want to have two different options at a similar price. Turbo for torque and sporty drivning ( and maybe tuning ) and the V6 for cruising and refinement.
06-11-15, 02:18 PM
#33
Lexus wont downsize their 3.5l in the USA, it makes no sense at all.... 3.0l with 250hp would be likely too similar to 2.0t in performance numbers.
Maybe they are looking to the future and will rename all of their engines in US to model similar in BMW, where there is no t in the naming and numbers reflect "power" instead of displacement.
Maybe they are looking to the future and will rename all of their engines in US to model similar in BMW, where there is no t in the naming and numbers reflect "power" instead of displacement.
We got word from our Lexus area product trainer a few months ago about this. IS, GS and RC will be available in 200t, 300 and 350 trim levels. They are trying to give us more engine options like BMW and Mercedes do. 200t's get a version of the NX's 2.0 turbo that makes roughly 245 hp. They did not mention torque output. The 300's are getting the same 3.5L v-6 we have now, but they have been "detuned" if you will. They will put out about as much hp as the 3.0 v-6 from the 2006 GS300, about 245hp. Why they wanted both the 200t's and the 300's to have roughly the same power output, I do not know. 350's in all models are staying where they are at. If I remember correctly the 200t's in all 3 models are going to be available as regular and F Sport versions but will be RWD only.
We did get word that the 2016 RX's are getting the D-4s injection added to the V6, so it will have 306hp like the GS and IS's do.
We did get word that the 2016 RX's are getting the D-4s injection added to the V6, so it will have 306hp like the GS and IS's do.
I wouldn't just write off a replacement for the 2GR-FSE or major updates to it, as something has to be coming. I really cannot see them forgoing any improvements, in the face of competitor onslaught.
The Jaguar XE and BMW F30 LCi will obliterate the IS, as well the G30 5-Series (next year) and X260 XF. The GS will not be redesigned for another 3-4 years nor the upcoming facelift benefit from anything in that area. The RC isn't even doing so well against the 4-Series, so a naturally-aspirated RC300 vs a much needed RC300t/RC400 (TTV6) is not going to suffice against the 435i and upcoming 440i.
MB just introduced the M276 TTV6 E400 in 2013 on the W212 facelift and new C400 last year. They are already replacing it starting next year, with new I6 engines in the redesigned W213 E-Class.
MB and BMW update and outright replace their power plants every 5 minutes, while Lexus plans to hold onto theirs, for probably over a dozen years! I understand kaizen, but this is beyond absurd!
06-11-15, 02:43 PM
#34
cmk, just to add, Lexus sticking to the same 350 should not be too baffling as they have stuck with the same engines before. And I agree MB and BMW seem to change engines every 5 minutes. If you take a look at past engines, Lexus produced the 2JZGE engine from 92 to 05 with a VVTI upgrade in 98. The UZFE engines were produced from 1990 to 2010 with a VVTi and coilpacks update in 98 and 4.3L update in 00. There were other updates but that is all i can remember from the top of my head.
Last edited by jadu; 06-11-15 at 02:54 PM.
06-11-15, 03:08 PM
#35
Well, it seems that they are doing a lower output IS300, but not even under an improved 2GR-FSE nor a TTV6. A twin-turbo V6 is coming to Lexus, but just not the GS, IS, and RC.
Well, thank you for that information. That will be unfortunate for those three, so I wonder what means for the 2017 LS then? That was shown to people with the mention of a 3.0 litre twin-turbo 6-cylinder. The fact that they told you, they intend to keep the same engine, FURTHER unchanged after 10 years since it debuted in the 20-Series IS (in 2005), is just baffling.
I wouldn't just write off a replacement for the 2GR-FSE or major updates to it, as something has to be coming. I really cannot see them forgoing any improvements, in the face of competitor onslaught.
The Jaguar XE and BMW F30 LCi will obliterate the IS, as well the G30 5-Series (next year) and X260 XF. The GS will not be redesigned for another 3-4 years nor the upcoming facelift benefit from anything in that area. The RC isn't even doing so well against the 4-Series, so a naturally-aspirated RC300 vs a much needed RC300t/RC400 (TTV6) is not going to suffice against the 435i and upcoming 440i.
MB just introduced the M276 TTV6 E400 in 2013 on the W212 facelift and new C400 last year. They are already replacing it starting next year, with new I6 engines in the redesigned W213 E-Class.
MB and BMW update and outright replace their power plants every 5 minutes, while Lexus plans to hold onto theirs, for probably over a dozen years! I understand kaizen, but this is beyond absurd!
Well, thank you for that information. That will be unfortunate for those three, so I wonder what means for the 2017 LS then? That was shown to people with the mention of a 3.0 litre twin-turbo 6-cylinder. The fact that they told you, they intend to keep the same engine, FURTHER unchanged after 10 years since it debuted in the 20-Series IS (in 2005), is just baffling.
I wouldn't just write off a replacement for the 2GR-FSE or major updates to it, as something has to be coming. I really cannot see them forgoing any improvements, in the face of competitor onslaught.
The Jaguar XE and BMW F30 LCi will obliterate the IS, as well the G30 5-Series (next year) and X260 XF. The GS will not be redesigned for another 3-4 years nor the upcoming facelift benefit from anything in that area. The RC isn't even doing so well against the 4-Series, so a naturally-aspirated RC300 vs a much needed RC300t/RC400 (TTV6) is not going to suffice against the 435i and upcoming 440i.
MB just introduced the M276 TTV6 E400 in 2013 on the W212 facelift and new C400 last year. They are already replacing it starting next year, with new I6 engines in the redesigned W213 E-Class.
MB and BMW update and outright replace their power plants every 5 minutes, while Lexus plans to hold onto theirs, for probably over a dozen years! I understand kaizen, but this is beyond absurd!
no need to worry, 2GR is getting the update, like all of the Toyota range... Tacoma and RX already have announced the updated engines, without all the details but they go on sale in few months... i expect the same for IS and GS. I expect only the block to stay the same, like with all of their new engines announced already this year and last.
06-11-15, 03:34 PM
#36
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no need to worry, 2GR is getting the update, like all of the Toyota range... Tacoma and RX already have announced the updated engines, without all the details but they go on sale in few months... i expect the same for IS and GS. I expect only the block to stay the same, like with all of their new engines announced already this year and last.
But then of course, emissions and mpg are important factors as well ! And I would be surprised if that did not change to the better.
06-11-15, 04:48 PM
#37
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Thanks for the info 2GSKaizen. Yay... for a new engine option... I guess... 
Looks like they're really so far behind the curve in their development of a next-gen V6 that they have to do something like this.
Looks like they're really so far behind the curve in their development of a next-gen V6 that they have to do something like this.
Last edited by ydooby; 06-11-15 at 04:53 PM.
06-11-15, 05:46 PM
#38
Yes but what will it give us ? 2016 Lexus RX 350 will get around 300 hp as far as I know and maybe a little bit better torque ? Will you actually feel the upgrades . The answer is most certainly a big No. The RC-F engine is a pretty good example of this, with the important difference that RC-F actually has a clear upgrade in hp and torque numbers. So I would not expect anything as a driver of those new engines.
But then of course, emissions and mpg are important factors as well ! And I would be surprised if that did not change to the better.
But then of course, emissions and mpg are important factors as well ! And I would be surprised if that did not change to the better.
As to mpg, so far depending on the vehicle and market 10%-25% increases with new Toyota ESTEC range of technologies.
06-11-15, 05:50 PM
#39
this is next generation V6 engine from Toyota... same goes for 4cly and 8cly engines that they already introduced - these are next generations.
06-11-15, 05:53 PM
#40
Unless Tacoma and RX are 300-400lbs heavier than their predecessors, then you will certainly feel big difference... RC-F and IS-F are same speed despite RC-F being based on heavier GS - thats because they increased the power. So if you put same engine into 3IS-F, it would have been a lot faster than 2IS-F.
06-11-15, 11:44 PM
#41
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This is certainly a strange turn of events. I've never seen another company offer two engines of the same horsepower, simply to let the customer chose between turbo and refinement. That's too expensive to market and not enough difference for the average buyer to even care. Hopefully there's more to the story than we know here.
Btw, I'm still shocked this is something we first heard from a dealer on Facebook!
Btw, I'm still shocked this is something we first heard from a dealer on Facebook!
Last edited by Fizzboy7; 06-12-15 at 01:19 PM.
06-12-15, 04:06 AM
#42
This is certainly a strange turn of events. I've never seen another company offer two engines of the same horsepower, simply to let the customer choice between turbo and refinement. That's too expensive to market and not enough difference for the average buyer to even care. Hopefully there's more to the story than we know here.
Btw, I'm still shocked this is something we first heard from a dealer on Facebook!
Btw, I'm still shocked this is something we first heard from a dealer on Facebook!
06-12-15, 06:36 AM
#43
Pole Position
The 3 engine option makes no sense. If Lexus wanted to do that, they could have kept the old 3.0L as a midrange option as an upgrade from the 2.5L in the IS and as a base engine in the GS. Now of all times to reintroduce the 3.0L along with a 2.0T makes no sense and I doubt Akio would be stupid enough to do that.
06-12-15, 06:49 AM
#44
Pole Position
I don't want to believe that this kind of decision is made. As a matter of fact it makes more sense to tune 2.0t for higher output then to downtune 3.5 V6. Downtunes don't necessarily bring better fuel efficiency but they sure give you a lazier performance and longevity.
Like I said I would understand if they went for 300hp 2.0t upgrade which would suite IS and RC quite well but not the other way around.
Who knows I hope no one is that unreasonable at Toyota.
Like I said I would understand if they went for 300hp 2.0t upgrade which would suite IS and RC quite well but not the other way around.
Who knows I hope no one is that unreasonable at Toyota.
06-12-15, 10:31 AM
#45
Similiar hp output is strange. If the 2.0t and 3L v6 have the similiar hp, then I'd suspect the only thing that would set them apart is the drivetrain. Gearing may be different. Is it even a possibility that there may be return of a manual transmission?