4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

3IS and 4GS beat BMWs in the tests, people still dont really care to mention that they did. These latest cars dont get enough credit. Dont expect it overnight. People are still on the BMW > * kool aid never mind their latest cars have gotten softer with many complaints from reviewers when compared to older models

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Another thought about the GS F. Hopefully Head's Up Display (HUD) is available..

yardie876

+1 I doubt it though, since it has the LFA inspired speedo. Also, I hope the GS-F has IPA at least as an option.

Gojirra99

That's why having an underpowered car as the F top dog is doing a disservice with what the 3IS and 4 GS have accomplished.

Yes we are all aware of the chassis and the driver's car argument already, but the GS F DESERVE to be given more hp given it's better chassis compared to the E and 5, and it is a pity it is severely behind in hp, which makes it a somewhat incomplete package overall, you can't be too much behind in any area at all to be taken seriously at this level by the general public.
AFAIC they missed a huge opportunity to let the GS F really stand out against the Germans and advance the F brand this time around, and it is such a pity.
The current M5 is overweight, but the next one they are already working on reducing weight as we have seen reported, as I have said, competition never stand still, so the next generation, the competition is expected to be even tougher and harder for the next GS F to stand out against, even if the next GS F is finally given the appropriate hp to match, and we are not even too sure of that if Lexus continue to insist on " doing their own thing" ......

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

yea and the new M lead is thinking about AWD for the next Ms to try to control the increasing power. This wont make the car lighter nor cheaper. M5 is already way out of its price range and it will keep going out the GSFs price range.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

If the M's and AMG's are increasing in size, power, price, then the GS F is inheriting a spot once occupied by the formers. Carving out a nice little niche for itself.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

GSF is what the one of the best M5s used to be, the E39 M5. Similar weight, similar engine size, but with 70+ more hp. Heck the MSRP of the E39 is pretty much what is speculated for the GSF. starting $70k. If you want a modern E39 M5, here it is.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Ah yes I know this vehicle well. We have a VIP client that ships his blue 2002 E39 to have it serviced. 4.9L V8 and 6MT

G Star

iTrader: (2)

Even though the RCF has mroe power than the M4 the RCF ever so slightly underperforms the M4, a lot of the logic here that, well all Lexus has to do is bump up the GSF to over 500hp and it will then be able to compete toe to toe with AMG and M. All Lexus had to do with the RCF was to make it slightly better so it would be better than the M4, but they didn't.

The LFA could've had more power but maybe there is a reason for the types of decisions that they're making.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

552hp / 562hp N edition is not bad for a NA 4.8L V10. That Code X LFA is 5.3L iirc, should be over 600hp. The Carrera GT for perspective was motivated by a 5.7L V10 unit with 612hp and the BMW E60 M5 was a 5.0L V10 500hp.

The tuning by Lexus/Yamaha probably didn't push it further for reliability purposes.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

LFA engine design was 10 years old, it doesnt even have direct injection.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

back to the drawing board

Nights

No one seems to care about that these days though. Just reading through this thread, it seems to all be about "more horsepower, more horsepower". I see M5 mentioned more than any other car in this thread, yet no-one seems to talk about the fact that the current generation M5 is seen as one of the worst M5s, and most M purists consider it to be bloated and handles like a pig. It can barely get the power down on the track, and essentially has far too much engine for it's chassis/tyres.

The fact that M are talking about AWD to be able to properly put the power down and to control the torque says something about maybe we've got TOO much power/torque now, at the expense of handling etc. I think most true M fans would have a heart attack if the M range went AWD.

The same issue occurred with the M3/4, and people seem to keep referring to that in the RCF forum, yet again many comparos have stated that the current M3/4 also has issues with getting its power down on the track and is not particularly "fun" to drive.

The E39 M5 was a hoot to drive, and I expect the GSF to be the same.

But I guess for many, having a fast car really just means going fast in a straight line. Traffic light heros maybe? :/

RNM GS3

LOL - Thats even worse when you put it that way.

Basically BMW was able to have a car with almost exact Performance 15 YEARS AGO!
In Automotive years thats a LONG time (2 Generations of Development)

Current 550i Msport or the Audi S6 matches up very well against GSF, which is pretty embarrassing for Lexus considering how long we had to wait for GSF.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

Maybe on paper, but the GS F would rage the E39 on a track and likely bigger current M's. We'll know soon enough