Lexus debuts 2016 GS F
#241
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
Lexus is always doing their own thing... I think you misunderstood cheif engineer when saying that they did not benchmark directly against M4 - they built RC-F based on what they wanted to do and then compared it to M4. BMW on the other hand, made their own and different decisions. This is why Lexus brings M4 to every dealer training and thats why they will also bring M5 to GS-F trainings.
Same will go for GS-F and M5. M5 will be a lot faster in straights, and GS-F will be a lot nimbler in curves, as well $30k easier on the valet.
Same will go for GS-F and M5. M5 will be a lot faster in straights, and GS-F will be a lot nimbler in curves, as well $30k easier on the valet.
Everyone would want AMG V8 turbo in M3 as well, is BMW a failure for following their own path with I6 turbo? Everyone would like GS chassis on M5, is BMW a failure for following their own path?
it goes both ways.
it goes both ways.
They finally brought out a turbo 4cyl, years after the Germans had theirs.
If u dont think that turbo 6 and 8cyl are next for Lexus prob when new LS comes out, then I have a bridge to sell you.
If u dont think that turbo 6 and 8cyl are next for Lexus prob when new LS comes out, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Once you succeeded in planting a respected brand image into the psych of the public, that line of products could benefit from it for decades to come just on that image/ goodwill alone, even if the product itself may not always stand out against the competition.
oh and, is the is-f done (finished) now there's an rc-f? seems a bit odd.
if lexus had named this gs-f the gs500 f-sport as many would want here, wouldn't that cause an 'issue' with the rc-f (having the same drivetrain, a bit bigger, but barely any heavier)?
but again, all these discussions and nit-picking don't mean much as toyota is making a load of money with its lexus brand, and is expanding it cautiously and slowly. not a bad plan, and it's working.
remember lexus got dinged for not have diesels in europe... now they might end up looking smart because the europeans are finally realizing a 'clean diesel' is an oxymoron.
There is no way Lexus was going toe to toe with the M5 or E63AMG their first time out with a top end GS. Lexus is still not a direct German competitor and not prestigious enough as a brand to charge around 100K for a mid level sedan no matter how much hp it makes, yes a couple dozen people on CL may buy it who could afford it but the buying pubic is not going to spend that kind of money on a Lexus. The LS is still a notch below the S class, A8, or 7 series, it is a great car but just not at their level or offers what they have offered like 12 cylinders, big V8 power, etc not to mention the top end lower volume cars/engines those German companies have offered that Lexus does not so expecting Lexus to be a direct competitor to the high dollar German power sedans with power, performance, price was a little unrealistic. It is not how Lexus does things.
yes, i know there's a f logo slapped on the side. but you know full well what i mean that it should be in the name if the BRANDING is to have benefitted from having a model as incredible as the LFA. while some enthusiasts know the lfa has an f logo on it, it's not the same as having it in the model designation.
#242
Lexus Test Driver
iTrader: (2)
I don't really get most of the people disatisfied with the "lower than competitor" numbers. The entire F line has always had less power than their competitors and Lexus has always been proud of that and never saw the necessity to change.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
#243
Super Moderator
you mean like l-tuned? and while f-sport has moved forward and expanded, i think putting it on the CTh and RX were flat out ridiculous. and if you look at the actual lexus f-sport accessories, say for the GS, it's a couple of rims, a flat tire kit, and a case for the key. http://www.lexus.com/models/GS/accessories - f-sport is still very light on credibility. even on the f-sport cars, they went 2 steps forward and 1 back, by adding 'sporty' features, and then taking away many luxury features.
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#244
Super Moderator
Really? the IS F/ RC F has exceeded the hp of the M3/M4 when introduced
#246
exclusive matchup
iTrader: (4)
I don't really get most of the people disatisfied with the "lower than competitor" numbers. The entire F line has always had less power than their competitors and Lexus has always been proud of that and never saw the necessity to change.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
#247
I don't really get most of the people disatisfied with the "lower than competitor" numbers. The entire F line has always had less power than their competitors and Lexus has always been proud of that and never saw the necessity to change.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
#248
No not at all, I mean actual F cars. They IMO should not hastily introduce another F car at all if they are not ready. This GS will be a fantastic addition to the GS model if it were just marketed as a "regular" Fsport V8, much better than if they just introduce a GS500 with only 416 hp of the ISF and I am sure would have exceeded all expectations.
As to offering it as GS500, I just checked 550i and people who complain that Lexus will be expensive at $80k - 550i equipped like top end GS350, costs $93k.
#249
Super Moderator
but once again, GS-F is not just the engine. Do you think that only difference between 528i and M5 is the engine? Or that only difference between GS 350 and GS-F is engine?
As to offering it as GS500, I just checked 550i and people who complain that Lexus will be expensive at $80k - 550i equipped like top end GS350, costs $93k.
As to offering it as GS500, I just checked 550i and people who complain that Lexus will be expensive at $80k - 550i equipped like top end GS350, costs $93k.
The expectation for this GS is already very low for most from the discussion about rumours of the specs. of this car in the previous thread. Virtually nobody expect it to match the 550+hp of competitors, but I guess very few expect them to do absolutely nothing and just put the EXACT SAME engine as the RC F in it, and that never happens in any of their competitors equivalent classes of cars either, that's the really disappointing part, absolutely no excuse for that IMO ...
Last edited by Gojirra99; 01-08-15 at 03:10 PM.
#250
At this level, it's not just the chassis either, the engine is just as important. You have to be competitive in EVERY aspect. You don't have to lead or even match in every department, but you cannot be too far behind in ANY department AT ALL.
The expectation for this GS is already very low for most from the discussion about rumours of the specs. of this car in the previous thread. Virtually nobody expect it to match the 550+hp of competitors, but I guess very few expect them to do absolutely nothing and just put the EXACT SAME engine as the RC F in it, and that never happens in any of their competitors equivalent classes of cars either, that's the really disappointing part, absolutely no excuse for that IMO ...
The expectation for this GS is already very low for most from the discussion about rumours of the specs. of this car in the previous thread. Virtually nobody expect it to match the 550+hp of competitors, but I guess very few expect them to do absolutely nothing and just put the EXACT SAME engine as the RC F in it, and that never happens in any of their competitors equivalent classes of cars either, that's the really disappointing part, absolutely no excuse for that IMO ...
And the member that thought all previous Fs had lower power than the competition, this just shows how much people know about the F brand. A lot of people probably don't know that the last ISF equal the time of the M3 at the Nurburgring, a testament to how far F has gone in a short period of time. So, to just put the untuned RCF engine in the GSF is simply lazy especially for a long and much anticipated GSF (after Akio stated that more power can be extracted from this engine).
#252
Lead Lap
Bingo!
And the member that thought all previous Fs had lower power than the competition, this just shows how much people know about the F brand. A lot of people probably don't know that the last ISF equal the time of the M3 at the Nurburgring, a testament to how far F has gone in a short period of time. So, to just put the untuned RCF engine in the GSF is simply lazy especially for a long and much anticipated GSF (after Akio stated that more power can be extracted from this engine).
And the member that thought all previous Fs had lower power than the competition, this just shows how much people know about the F brand. A lot of people probably don't know that the last ISF equal the time of the M3 at the Nurburgring, a testament to how far F has gone in a short period of time. So, to just put the untuned RCF engine in the GSF is simply lazy especially for a long and much anticipated GSF (after Akio stated that more power can be extracted from this engine).
#254
I don't really get most of the people disatisfied with the "lower than competitor" numbers. The entire F line has always had less power than their competitors and Lexus has always been proud of that and never saw the necessity to change.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
Lexus practiced great restraint with power figures with the LFA which had a seemingly endless R&D budget.
Either Lexus truly believes there is some magical ratio of handling & power to achieve a truly joyful driving experience or there is some mega strategy at play here.
Many here aren't worried about turbos or superchargers on the GS-F. Lexus really should have been able to pull 500+ hp from that engine.
#255
Pole Position
When the IS-F came out it had 416 hp 371 lb-ft. M3 414 hp 295 lb-ft. C63 451 hp 443 lb-ft. RS4 420 hp 317 lb-ft. Power figures were extremely close minus the heavier C63 but at least the IS-F was in the ball park. You would have heard complaints if Lexus would have offered the same 389 hp tune from the LS600hL
Many here aren't worried about turbos or superchargers on the GS-F. Lexus really should have been able to pull 500+ hp from that engine.
Many here aren't worried about turbos or superchargers on the GS-F. Lexus really should have been able to pull 500+ hp from that engine.