mmarshall

When I did my full review of the then-redesigned 6Gen Lexus ES350 back at the end of 2012 (it was a one of the special Holiday Reviews for Car CHAT that I do during the holiday season each year), I mentioned the then-new ES's tendency to ride a little harsher and noisier than the 5Gen model it replaced (and the 5Gen rode a little firmer than the 4Gen it replaced). Consumer Reports, at the time, also noticed the same thing....and blamed it on Lexus cost-cutting with less sound-insulation, thinner materials, and a slightly firmer suspension, as the tires had stayed pretty much the same with the redesign.

Well, I'll be the first one to admit my reviews (and those of Consumer Reports) are not always infallible....and if I have a good or credible reason to change or alter something I wrote, I'll do it. Since the time I did the review (late November 2012), compared to that day, I've had a chance to drive or ride in several other 6Gen ES350 models under different conditions. When I did my ES review, in late November, I remember, it was a pretty raw, cold, overcast day in D.C. (though real winter around here usually doesn't come until January). Cold weather, of course, can affect a car's ride and noise level because the rubber in the tires gets hard and inflexible, and the weather-stripping/sound insulation contracts and doesn't seal up as well. So, all else equal, cold winter days without sun often mean a firmer noisier ride than warm or hot days with sun, as the sun softens and expands both tire-rubber and weatherstripping.

That, not surprisingly, is apparently what happened with the ES. I reviewed and drove it under conditions that were generally not conducive to best-comfort. (Consumer Reports may have, too, without realizing it). I've noticed a difference (though not a huge one) in the same ES models on warm, sunny days. A friend of mine (an older guy I swim with indoors regularly) has a leased 6Gen ES, and I've ridden in it several times. Today, we went out to lunch in it on a bright sunny day, about 80 degrees, after his car had been sitting in the sun for a couple of hours. While it was still not quite as silky as the superb 4Gen model (or even that of the previous 5Gen), the ride comfort and noise-level of his 6Gen ES in today's warm sunny weather was noticeably better than it was on that cold late November day I formally reviewed it and wrote it up. So, I will partly (but not completely) change my preliminary verdict of that car that (I wrote than a year and a half ago.

bitkahuna

iTrader: (20)

would you like this post merged into your review thread?

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The 6ES improved handling, space, efficiency, technology and safety. It's not as tomb like or insulated as the 4th gen and cheaper plastics like the 5ES, but that said I'd still pick it over a Lacrosse, Azera. Haven't sampled a new TLX yet but that's the only one that would possibly have a chance if I were looking for a vehicle of this ilk

Toys4RJill

Agreed, it doesn't need to be a tomb. Lexus is introducing a little driving dynamics into their new models. The Lexus ES is quiet enough, it has a good interior with good materials. I don't like the faux leather but whatever.

As for the Lacrosse, honestly, the Lacrosse is really behind in the design and execution of the current ES. The Azera, well who cares, a Genesis is where it is at if you are looking for a Hyundai.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

The Lexus NuLuxe though is better IMO than some other synthetics like BMW Dakota leather or MBtex which are overly firm and don't age well from my experience.

Genesis would be the one to get. Rumormill suggests the Azera may not be around much longer in NA since the new Sonata is knocking on it's older brothers door, and then the Genesis and Equus reign supreme in Hyundai's pecking order

LexFather

Consumers love the new ES. It's overall well done. The hybrid was a great addition.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

What the HS should have been in the first place (IMO).

For what it's worth I do like the refreshed HS offered in Japan.

mmarshall

No....but thanks for asking. I thought about bumping the original review myself and attaching this, but then I felt there was no need to re-post the entire review just to comment on or add to one small part of it. My reviews can be quite long and lengthy to read (as they are for me to write), and it would just waste some people's time to re-read them.

4TehNguyen

iTrader: (1)

the existence of the ES in the entry level luxury for Lexus is a good thing for both the IS. That way if you want a sports sedan you can get an IS or if you want a comfy car you can get an ES. This way neither car gets compromised in its design instead of having one car trying to do both. Just look at how the 3 and 5 series got bloated and softer to try to make it more comfortable. Then you wonder why the IS and GS beat both of them in some tests.

mmarshall

True, but as I just stated above, warm weather makes a noticeable difference...as it does in many vehicles. Warm temperatures and direct sunlight improve the way both tires and weather-insulation improve comfort and quietness. It's interesting that the PSI-sensors today, in my friend's ES, showed 37 PSI in all four tires (a fairly good pump-up), yet, because of the sun and heat, the rubber in the 17" 55-series tires was soft enough to still adequately insulate bumps.


I haven't driven a new Azera (although a neighbor of mine just bought one), but Consumer Reports is not as impressed with the new Azera as it with the sister Kia Cadenza (which I myself also had a high opinion of when I reviewed it).

What's the main reason you would pick the ES over the Lacrosse? Potential reliability? That's what I see as its single biggest advantage. Both of them actually drive about the same in their road manners....in fact, the Lacrosse may have a slight edge when it comes to steering.

mmarshall

The ES, though, has to be enough of a tomb (even if it's a little better-handling one now) to retain enough of its family-sedan, comfort-oriented, and older-buyer base (like my friend, for example, who is 14 years older than I am). That's the main purpose of the ES....to provide something that is smooth and quiet for those who can't (or don't ) spurge on an LS. No version, IMO, did it as well as the superb 4Gen (and its gorgeous wood interior to boot).

And it is apparent that, given the right environment, the new ES still basically does. I admit that, because of the effects of the cold, I may have overemphasized the amount of ride-comfort and noise isolation the designers took out of the 6Gen model (so may have Consumer reports).....otherwise, I wouldn't have taken the time to do this thread.

I also notice smoother, quieter road manners in both my Verano and my former Outback when the weather is sunny and warm.


The Lacrosse's general fit/finish level is not as good as the ES (in fact, the fit/finish not as good as on its own little brothers Verano and Regal, for that matter). But, on the road, IMO, there is little difference between the way the ES and Lacrosse drive. The ES has the advantage of a true hybrid option.....the Lacrosse, the advantage of a conventional AWD version.

A neighbor of mine just bought a new Azera (and is quite pleased with it). But in general, I have to agree with you....the Azera is not a major player in today's automotive scene. That's partly because many people don't really consider one. They are usually part of the Avalon/Lacrosse/Impala group of previously-dedicated buyers, though the new Kia Cadenza is getting good press-reviews and it also taking some of the Azera's possible attention away from it.

Trexus

Lexus should bring back the HS 250h as an entry level hybrid sedan and have the ES 300h as a mid-level hybrid sedan and the LS 600h L as the full size hybrid sedan.

Lexus should also bring in the IS 300h as the entry level hybrid sport sedan and the GS 450h is the mid-level hybrid sport sedan.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

I agree they are similar, the gap is closer. Actually the reliability is a big thing about it, and mostly because I'm comfortable with Lexus product operation. While not perfect, few do it as good as Lexus (overall). I own the product, work with the product, have input/ears with the company. Personal experiences have been nothing short of amazing even when issues arise. I'm not the biggest advocate of the ES because there are better Lexus's but it's not a terrible car by any means

mmarshall

I consider it the junior LS (at roughly half the amount) for those who don't want to (or can't) shell out 75-80K. Its impressive sales figures (and those of the Lacrosse) also show that there is still a big market for non-sport-oriented luxury cars.....which is something I've said for years. The auto press seems to have many manufacturers convinced that ever-increasing sport is the way to go.

Hoovey689

iTrader: (16)

True, but it would be nice to up the 'luxury' quotient a tad specifically in the material quality and insulation departments. The ES's Avalon sibling has near just as good materials though some uncharacteristically firm seats.