View Poll Results: What should the next LS go after?
Voters: 158. You may not vote on this poll
Next Lexus LS (2018 model)
10-14-15, 11:55 AM
#286
Lexus Fanatic
Its not in the same segment, but that fact that it reminds me as much as it does of an LS is a testament to how well done a car it is being in a segment below. Driving a Genesis and an Equus and comparing them...I don't really know why you'd buy the Equus...
10-14-15, 03:21 PM
#287
I had the opportunity recently to ride in back of a Genesis ("Executive" trim what ever that means) everyday for three weeks in Malaysia. I have to admit I was quite impressed with the fit & finish, quality of materials, and the overall comfortable ride. PS. LOL - Nope I did not even attempt to get in the drivers seat.
10-14-15, 03:37 PM
#288
no matter how much people want Hyundai to be real competitor to tier 1 brands, it simply isnt... numbers prove this worldwide.
For a long time press thought that Hyundai is natural Toyota (and VW) competitor, but they ended up taking up sales from French, Italian and US companies... not Japanese and German.
Their downfall was when they tried to up the price of their cars in past few years... didnt really work out and their sales and profits have been down since...
For a long time press thought that Hyundai is natural Toyota (and VW) competitor, but they ended up taking up sales from French, Italian and US companies... not Japanese and German.
Their downfall was when they tried to up the price of their cars in past few years... didnt really work out and their sales and profits have been down since...
10-14-15, 09:00 PM
#289
Pole Position
Here's the big problem with the Genesis I drove.
It reminded me of a better ES. It's a big threat to the LS in the same way an ES is a big threat to the LS--you get 60% of the isolation for 3/4 the price.
But in terms of driver appeal and connnectedness? Doesn't come close to the GS.
I'm not close minded. I really wanted to like the Genesis as I love a good deal and I hoped to get a Korean GS for Korean prices but alas....
It reminded me of a better ES. It's a big threat to the LS in the same way an ES is a big threat to the LS--you get 60% of the isolation for 3/4 the price.
But in terms of driver appeal and connnectedness? Doesn't come close to the GS.
I'm not close minded. I really wanted to like the Genesis as I love a good deal and I hoped to get a Korean GS for Korean prices but alas....
10-14-15, 09:06 PM
#290
Lexus Fanatic
It's not a threat to the LS, I simply said that it reminded me a lot of my LS. It's more than 60% of the isolation of the LS.
When's the last time you drove an LS? It was about 3 hours ago for me, and I owned a 4GS for 3 years but what do I know?
When's the last time you drove an LS? It was about 3 hours ago for me, and I owned a 4GS for 3 years but what do I know?
10-15-15, 07:06 AM
#291
Lexus Fanatic
iTrader: (20)
if tiers are decided only by 'numbers' then tiers are meaningless. range rover would certainly be considered luxury by most people, but their numbers aren't big so are they 'worse' than other brands? well, they're their own niche, so it's hard to compare. likewise, there's really very little to compare lexus with other brands, the line-ups are so different.
as for hyundai/kia, i think they're doing just fine.
Last edited by bitkahuna; 10-15-15 at 12:19 PM.
10-15-15, 07:20 AM
#292
Pole Position
lexus isn't tier 1 either. ls is no s-class. es is fwd. gs has 1 engine in the u.s. lack of coupes. 'f' nothing close to amg/m, etc.
if tiers are decided only by 'numbers' then tiers are meaningless. range rover would certainly be considered luxury by most people, but their numbers aren't big so are they 'worse' than other brands? well, they're their own niche, so it's hard to compare. likewise, there's really very little to compare lexus with other brands, the line-ups are so different.
as for hyundai/kia, i think they're doing just fine.
if tiers are decided only by 'numbers' then tiers are meaningless. range rover would certainly be considered luxury by most people, but their numbers aren't big so are they 'worse' than other brands? well, they're their own niche, so it's hard to compare. likewise, there's really very little to compare lexus with other brands, the line-ups are so different.
as for hyundai/kia, i think they're doing just fine.
10-15-15, 08:36 AM
#293
Lexus Champion
lexus isn't tier 1 either. ls is no s-class. es is fwd. gs has 1 engine in the u.s. lack of coupes. 'f' nothing close to amg/m, etc.
if tiers are decided only by 'numbers' then tiers are meaningless. range rover would certainly be considered luxury by most people, but their numbers aren't big so are they 'worse' than other brands? well, they're their own niche, so it's hard to compare. likewise, there's really very little to compare lexus with other brands, the line-ups are so different.
as for hyundai/kia, i think they're doing just fine.
if tiers are decided only by 'numbers' then tiers are meaningless. range rover would certainly be considered luxury by most people, but their numbers aren't big so are they 'worse' than other brands? well, they're their own niche, so it's hard to compare. likewise, there's really very little to compare lexus with other brands, the line-ups are so different.
as for hyundai/kia, i think they're doing just fine.
The trio represent the most successful combination of prestige and sales volume, and the gap between them and Tier 2 brands is noticeably wide.
10-15-15, 08:46 AM
#294
Lead Lap
Yet it still lacks prestige in the upper end of the luxury segment. Lexus of course is trying to remedy this with cars like the upcoming LF-LC (not sure what it's actually going to be called).
10-15-15, 09:25 AM
#295
All three have entry level cars that make it less luxurious (no one really flaunts the CT or 1-Series or CLA as "luxurious").
MB does well with their AMG exotics as well as their S-Class Maybach edition (whatever you want to call it). BMW and Lexus ain't got nothing on their plate to match it.
Otherwise, I don't even consider these three as part of the upper end of the luxury segment. Leave that to the Big Boys like Rolls Royce and Ferrari and such.
Therefore, I'm fine with the three being sub-ultra-lux Tier 1. But surely, they ain't Tier Alpha.
10-15-15, 10:55 AM
#296
Lexus Fanatic
You know what I've noticed about this whole "tier" concept? It comes up on the forum in discussion, and typically from people who aren't actually consumers of these vehicles new to begin with.
I know a lot of people who are high income consumers of luxury cars. I see them trade back and forth between Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi, Acura, Infiniti, and non luxury-branded cars. I know people who have had LS's, S Classes, and now have Hyundais. I know people who have had expensive luxury cars and now drive Chevy Tahoes or Jeeps. Look at Tesla. No heritage, no history, no dealers or service really to speak of. All those $100k+ buyers came from somewhere.
This "tier" nonsense isn't nearly as important to actual consumers as what they perceive as the value of the vehicle. Value isn't a term just reserved for something that is a smart money move either, by the way.
I know a lot of people who are high income consumers of luxury cars. I see them trade back and forth between Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi, Acura, Infiniti, and non luxury-branded cars. I know people who have had LS's, S Classes, and now have Hyundais. I know people who have had expensive luxury cars and now drive Chevy Tahoes or Jeeps. Look at Tesla. No heritage, no history, no dealers or service really to speak of. All those $100k+ buyers came from somewhere.
This "tier" nonsense isn't nearly as important to actual consumers as what they perceive as the value of the vehicle. Value isn't a term just reserved for something that is a smart money move either, by the way.
10-15-15, 10:55 AM
#297
lexus isn't tier 1 either. ls is no s-class. es is fwd. gs has 1 engine in the u.s. lack of coupes. 'f' nothing close to amg/m, etc.
if tiers are decided only by 'numbers' then tiers are meaningless. range rover would certainly be considered luxury by most people, but their numbers aren't big so are they 'worse' than other brands? well, they're their own niche, so it's hard to compare. likewise, there's really very little to compare lexus with other brands, the line-ups are so different.
as for hyundai/kia, i think they're doing just fine.
if tiers are decided only by 'numbers' then tiers are meaningless. range rover would certainly be considered luxury by most people, but their numbers aren't big so are they 'worse' than other brands? well, they're their own niche, so it's hard to compare. likewise, there's really very little to compare lexus with other brands, the line-ups are so different.
as for hyundai/kia, i think they're doing just fine.
Your personal opinion might be that it isnt, and that Hyundai is doing "fine" but thats just uninformed personal opinion
10-15-15, 10:59 AM
#298
You know what I've noticed about this whole "tier" concept? It comes up on the forum in discussion, and typically from people who aren't actually consumers of these vehicles new to begin with.
I know a lot of people who are high income consumers of luxury cars. I see them trade back and forth between Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi, Acura, Infiniti, and non luxury-branded cars. I know people who have had LS's, S Classes, and now have Hyundais. I know people who have had expensive luxury cars and now drive Chevy Tahoes or Jeeps. Look at Tesla. No heritage, no history, no dealers or service really to speak of. All those $100k+ buyers came from somewhere.
This "tier" nonsense isn't nearly as important to actual consumers as what they perceive as the value of the vehicle. Value isn't a term just reserved for something that is a smart money move either, by the way.
I know a lot of people who are high income consumers of luxury cars. I see them trade back and forth between Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi, Acura, Infiniti, and non luxury-branded cars. I know people who have had LS's, S Classes, and now have Hyundais. I know people who have had expensive luxury cars and now drive Chevy Tahoes or Jeeps. Look at Tesla. No heritage, no history, no dealers or service really to speak of. All those $100k+ buyers came from somewhere.
This "tier" nonsense isn't nearly as important to actual consumers as what they perceive as the value of the vehicle. Value isn't a term just reserved for something that is a smart money move either, by the way.
It is industry talk tho, so it is less important in real life where people compare any car within their range.
In fact, previously people would point out much lower transaction prices for Lexus compared to BMW and MB, however this has been going up and now there are very close to BMW's for instance, I believe last report from this year showed something like $49k vs $52k on average... with new RX, thats going to come really close to BMW or maybe even go over them.
10-15-15, 11:10 AM
#299
Lexus Fanatic
The issue is that its meaningless. Consumers are looking at what is in their range, and unless they are really brand loyal (like I am, for instance) what matters to them most is the product and the value proposition. People do cross shop Lexus, MB and BMWs with Audis, Infinitis, Cadillacs, Acuras...and yes Jeeps and Hyundais and Buicks...and they make a decision to buy cars from the "tier 2" brands and even mainstream brands over "tier 1" brands every day.
As far as prestige, I live in a very affluent area, have owned a Lexus for many years and have interacted with people a lot wealthier and more brand conscious than me for a long time. There is no question in my mind that when it comes to brand prestige Lexus is still at a disadvantage compared to Mercedes and BMW.
I know a guy who just traded a C300 in on a GS350. Now the GS is a class above the C, $20,000 more. People would make comments about his C300 and its cost, etc all the time, nobody says a word about his GS.
Thats been my experience too. Very few times have I ever met somebody who reacted to or was impressed by my Lexus. Be it the ES, GS or the LS.
As far as prestige, I live in a very affluent area, have owned a Lexus for many years and have interacted with people a lot wealthier and more brand conscious than me for a long time. There is no question in my mind that when it comes to brand prestige Lexus is still at a disadvantage compared to Mercedes and BMW.
I know a guy who just traded a C300 in on a GS350. Now the GS is a class above the C, $20,000 more. People would make comments about his C300 and its cost, etc all the time, nobody says a word about his GS.
Thats been my experience too. Very few times have I ever met somebody who reacted to or was impressed by my Lexus. Be it the ES, GS or the LS.
10-15-15, 11:37 AM
#300
Lead Lap
The issue is that its meaningless. Consumers are looking at what is in their range, and unless they are really brand loyal (like I am, for instance) what matters to them most is the product and the value proposition. People do cross shop Lexus, MB and BMWs with Audis, Infinitis, Cadillacs, Acuras...and yes Jeeps and Hyundais and Buicks...and they make a decision to buy cars from the "tier 2" brands and even mainstream brands over "tier 1" brands every day.
As far as prestige, I live in a very affluent area, have owned a Lexus for many years and have interacted with people a lot wealthier and more brand conscious than me for a long time. There is no question in my mind that when it comes to brand prestige Lexus is still at a disadvantage compared to Mercedes and BMW.
I know a guy who just traded a C300 in on a GS350. Now the GS is a class above the C, $20,000 more. People would make comments about his C300 and its cost, etc all the time, nobody says a word about his GS.
Thats been my experience too. Very few times have I ever met somebody who reacted to or was impressed by my Lexus. Be it the ES, GS or the LS.
As far as prestige, I live in a very affluent area, have owned a Lexus for many years and have interacted with people a lot wealthier and more brand conscious than me for a long time. There is no question in my mind that when it comes to brand prestige Lexus is still at a disadvantage compared to Mercedes and BMW.
I know a guy who just traded a C300 in on a GS350. Now the GS is a class above the C, $20,000 more. People would make comments about his C300 and its cost, etc all the time, nobody says a word about his GS.
Thats been my experience too. Very few times have I ever met somebody who reacted to or was impressed by my Lexus. Be it the ES, GS or the LS.