Trexus

Five best Toyota products:
Lexus
1. Lexus LFA
2. Lexus LS
3. Lexus IS F
4. Lexus LX
5. Lexus RX
Toyota
1. Toyota 2000GT
2. Toyota Supra
3. Toyota Landcruiser
4. Toyota Camry
5. Toyota Celsior

Five worst Toyota products:

1. Toyota Echo
2. Scion Xa
3. Toyota Starlet
4. Toyota Paseo
5. Toyota Lite Ace

84Cressida

This list mostly factually incorrect, and I have to question just how much experience you've had with these cars.. There was never any 7th Gen turbo Celica (I wish there was though) and the 7th Gen was one of the best performing of the FWD Celicas sans the All-trac and the GT-S, with the 2ZZ-GE was one of the best performance coupes you could buy at the time. Its problems were price and idiotic Toyota execs not investing more in the car to keep sales strong, which the 7th Gen Celica had its first few years on the market. I've never found them noisy or crude either and hope to pick one up some day.

The T100 (there was no such thing as a T-150, which was only some rumored name for the Tundra before it came out and Toyota denies ever considering it or T-series ) was a great truck. Toyota should've put a V8 in order to gain more sales but they are stone dead reliable and have a huge following just like the smaller Toyota pickups, and anybody that has one loves them. My grandpa has a '95 T100 he bought new and it's been a great truck. And it was a full-size truck and is even EPA classified as such, and actually beats many of the dimensions of the competitors at the time.

The 1st and 2nd Gen Tundra are also great trucks, and I'd sure like to know what kind of "poor engineering" the 2nd Gen has, and do not even try to feed me that myth that the frame is "weak" because you saw Ford's little sales video proclaiming as such. If the Tundra's frame is weak, then so is Ford's own SuperDuty which uses the EXACT same type of construction, and the Tundra, the whole entire truck, is the only 1/2 rated under the newest SAE standards for towing/payload performance. GM, Ford, and Dodge continue to hide behind their internal, self-proclaimed numbers to this day. As for the interior, if the Tundra's interior is cheap, then so are the competitors, none of which had soft touch dashes at the time and none do still except on their super expensive exclusive trim models which Toyota will also have on the 2014 Tundra. Oh yes, and like the T100, the Gen 1 Tundra was a fullsize and is bigger in many ways than some of the competitors out at the time and beat many of them in towing and payload when equipped with comparable engines/packages.

84Cressida

Best Toyota, or favorites if you will. It's hard to pick 5 as I have several.

1. Cressida - the proto Lexus, surprised more of you haven't mentioned it.
2. 2nd Gen Camry - just as reliable as the 3rd Generation, I love the boxier styling more though and they're pretty fun to drive.
3. 7th Gen Celica - My favorite Celica, sans maybe the 3rd Gen (1982-1986)
4. Hilux/Pickup/T100/4Runner
5. Land Cruiser - any Toyota enthusiast respects this and the Hilux.

I dont' think they've ever created any truly awful cars, at least not in the sense any were junkers. I wouldn't even say I hate these cars, but I just don't really care about them.

1. Previa - never cared for it
2. Echo
3. Scion xD
4. Paseo
5. Tercel

Best Lexus
1. LS. Toyota engineering at its best.
2. 2GS, 4GS. Don't mind the 3GS but really do not like the 1GS styling. Probably not a coincidence that Lexus designers didn't style it either.
3. IS
4 ES- I have a lot of respect for the ES250 and since I love the 2nd Gen Camry so much, it goes without saying that I would love this car too. I also like the later generations.
5. SC

LeX2K

I left the generation 2 Camry off my list because of rust issues. But they were incredible cars, probably the most reliable Toyota has ever built. And they have a brilliant suspension, too soft for some but the car ignores bumps and filters out the harshness like it's a much bigger car, especially the 4 cylinder models.

If there was ever a car I'd want Toyota to look at and remember what making a great car is all about, I'd point them to a generation 2 Camry.

mmarshall

I've not only reviewed, but actually owned some of the vehicles on this list...a couple of them for several years.


I disagree with your conclusion, but you are correct that there wasn't a turbo on that generation....that's my typo. The GTS model with the 1.8L VTEC engine, like similiarly-sized Honda VTEC fours, was all high-RPM HP and no torque, and, at the local Toyota shop, a number of them were getting new engines at low-mileage because some of the young kids driving them were constantly over-red-lining them trying to get some power, causing internal engine damage (somehow, fuel-cutoff at red-line didn't alwwsy work). The Service Manager himself pointed out several examples to me. In addition, I found the car undersized, cheaply-built, and uncomfortable...especially compared to the previous-generation, which was underpowered but otherside a superb sport-coupe.

I agree that, nmechanically, the 1994 T-series was well-built and reliable, but the lack of a V8 engine, and its mid-size frame, when its marketers were trying to put it up against F-150s and Silverados, was a serous problem. The sales figures proved it...it was a serious fail in the marketplace. That's not simply my opinion, but a fact.

[quote]The 1st and 2nd Gen Tundra are also great trucks, and I'd sure like to know what kind of "poor engineering" the 2nd Gen has, and do not even try to feed me that myth that the frame is "weak" because you saw Ford's little sales video proclaiming as such. If the Tundra's frame is weak, then so is Ford's own SuperDuty which uses the EXACT same type of construction, and the Tundra, the whole entire truck, is the only 1/2 rated under the newest SAE standards for towing/payload performance. GM, Ford, and Dodge continue to hide behind their internal, self-proclaimed numbers to this day. As for the interior, if the Tundra's interior is cheap, then so are the competitors, none of which had soft touch dashes at the time and none do still except on their super expensive exclusive trim models which Toyota will also have on the 2014 Tundra.

No. You are incorrect. Neither the T100 or the 1Gen Tundra was truly full-size by American standards (though they were being marketed as such). They varied from mid-size to 3/4 size. Again, that is not my opinion, but a fact.

As far as the interior-quality goes, I partially agree that 90's vintage Detroit full-size trucks also had some shortcomings inside, but, overall, seemed to have more solid-feeling materials inside. (This time, I say seemed, because it is simply my opinion and not necessarily fact).

LexFather

Damn forgot the Land Cruiser

mmarshall

Thanks, Mike. To an extent, I had forgotten that one, too....although it applies more to the newer than older ones. The newer ones, indeed, are superb (and by "newer", I mean the last 25-30 years). But, back in the 1960s (I remember an old Consumer Reports write-up on it), the Land-Cruiser had a potentially dangerous design....fuel-plumbing/fuel-lines running INSIDE the cabin, near the seats.

Toys4RJill

I have to agree with you on the Tundra. Marshall is a bit incorrect about his facts. The first gen Tundra is a full size truck, dimensions are not the only story. The payload and capacity are really what is the determining factor the first gen was right in there for capacity and payload.

As for 7th 8ths size, yes it was smaller but when it was released it was very competitive.

Is the current Toyota Land Cruiser a full size SUV? NOT if you park it next to a Tahoe or Expedition. But if you follow the capacity and payload then it is a full size.

The facts also show that the 04-06 Double cab Tundra is about the size of the current double cab. However the engine and payload do not compare to the current 5.7.

As for Marshall claim that the Tundra is a worst ever Toyota he is wrong there again, the first gen sold exceptionally well however the second did not sell to expectations. But neither did the Sequioa or anything else since the recession hit.

mmarshall

People actually buying trucks, though, generally agreed with me. For the most part, The T-series and early Tundrsa didn't significantly break into the American full-size truck market, for reasons I outlined earlier.

Tundra sales, now, are doing fairly well...but that is because a number of changes were made in recent years.

Blackraven

My personal list for the 5 TOYOTA GROUP CARS that I like/love and WORST 5 products from the Toyota Group:

IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER

5 FAVORITES

NOTE: I obviously have MORE THAN FIVE favorites.......but the thing is, the list say pick FIVE ONLY.

Blackraven

FIVE FAVORITES FROM THE TOYOTA GROUP

Note: I didn't mention the GT86/BRZ because you guys already mentioned it way too many times hehe

Anyways, here we go:

1) Toyota Alphard/Vellfire




2) Toyota Previa (aka Estima or Tarago)






3) Toyota ZELAS





Nice car

4) Toyota Wish

If Honda has a STREAM



then Toyota has a WISH






And this for me deserves special mention:

5) TOYOTA CALDINA












If Nissan has the Stagea and if Mitsubishi has the Galant VR-4 LEGNUM, then Toyota has the CALDINA. This is another one of them awesome and epic JDM WAGONS!!! Indeed, uber-cool estates and tourers from the Land of the Rising Sun.

I swear to God. If were really rich, I would pay the Toyota Group to create a one-off model of a 3rd gen Caldina. I WOULD PAY WHATEVER PRICE for it.

Fantastic vehicle indeed

Blackraven

LEXUS = FIVE FAVORITES

1) Lexus LFA

The performance flagship of the Lexus brand



2) Lexus LS

The premium flagship for the Lexus brand.






This car has won so many awards so it's self-explanatory

3) Lexus GS (3rd and 4th)




4) Lexus IS (2nd-generation)




The front-end of the 2IS looks way better (and cleaner as well as more consistent) compared to the 3IS imho.

5) Lexus LX 570



The LC200 is awesome without a doubt. The LX570 however takes it a bit further =)

Blackraven

WORST 5

1) Lexus HS (pre-facelift)



Damn those wheels look uninspiring. And man, that front end could've been better.

In fact:
The Toyota SAI version looks WAAAAAY BETTER



as well as the HS with the MMC Facelift:


Which IMHO could've helped saved the Lexus HS from extinction (in the North American markets)

2) Toyota BB (aka Scion xB at one point)




Some people like shoebox cars and I respect that..........but as for me, well.......not so much

3) Toyota AVANZA



Not that there's exactly anything wrong with it per se. I mean it works for utility and practicality purposes sure.

But for me, my goal in life DOES NOT involve owning a BUDGET CAR NOR does it involve owning an ASIAN UTILITY VEHICLE (or AUV).

I'd prefer something more stylish and more expensive. Thank you very much

4) Toyota Etios



Again nothing wrong with it per se. It's just that I can't envision myself driving a mass-market subcompact made for developing countries.

And an FYI, this was primarily designed for the Indian market.

Now, I have nothing against Indians. It's just that it's too cheap and budget-oriented for my tastes.

I'd rather be rich so that I don't have to drive cheap budget cars (such as that one)

5) TOYOTA 4RUNNER (facelift?)



GODDAMIT. That front grille looks like some MOTHER-****ING UGLY PIECE OF ****.

Attachment 498860

The front designer either has to have his EYES CHECKED and/or his BRAIN CHECKED..........PLUS an KICK IN THE ***.

PURELY EPIC FAIL WITHOUT A DOUBT

It's so goddam ugly...........that yo grandma's butt looks way better than that.

Aron9000

Since I'm not old enough to be familiar with 60's/70's Toyota products, all of mine have been built within my lifetime.

In no particular order, my favorite 5:

1. 84-85 Truck/4Runner. Still had a solid axle in the front, very reliable, just don't own one if you live in the great frozen brine states up north. Personally I love the styling on those model trucks, and this was back in the day when you wanted a small truck, it was actually small and fuel efficient. Plus the aftermarket is huge, so you can build/customize it, these things look great with big wheels/tires, aftermarket bumpers, etc.


2. 1990 LS400. Turned the notion of what a luxury car should be on its ear when it came out. Its a car that launched an empire and almost made Cadillac irrelevant(it did make Lincoln irrelevant).

3. 1993 Toyota Supra. Crazy styling and what has to be one of the most overbuilt and brilliantly engineered engines under the hood in any car.

4. 1992 Lexus SC300/400. Maybe I'm biased since I own one, but they are drop dead gorgeous cars. Provided some needed style to the Lexus brand, but it still had all the luxury appointments and refinement of the more staid LS400.

5. 1985 Toyota MR-2. Maybe I'm weird, but I love the very 80's styling on this car. Granted it isn't fast, but it sure is a novel car. Its like the Lotus Elise 10-15 years before there was a Lotus Elise, for about 1/3rd the price.


For the top five worst cars, just opinion though:

1. Toyota Echo. What an ugly pile of junk. Cheaply made(as in about on par with a Chevy Aveo), stupid center instrument binnacle. From what I've seen they haven't aged well either, and I don't see them on the road very often(not sure if thats from lack of sales when new or that they've all been junked)

2. 2007-2012 Corolla Actually a step backwards IMO from the previous model. The previous model had a much nicer interior and was better made. Flash forward to 2012 and we still have a 120hp and 4 speed automatic under the hood, same combo they've been selling since 2000 or so. Toyota has really let this model slide into irrelevance, yet people are still dumb enough to buy them when there are much better options out there IMO.

3. 2007-2011 Camry. The king of bland. Much like the Corolla, its ugly, the interior is cheaply made and worse than the model it replaces. Granted its a good car in terms of being spacious and quiet, but they could not have made a more bland/mediocre car.

4. Cressida/MK III Supra with the 7M-GE and 7M-GTE motors. Great cars with a flawed engine. The headbolts were torqued to the wrong spec at the factory, thus leading these cars to blow headgaskets. A lot of them would overheat so bad it would warp the head/block and require total engine replacement. The official Toyota service manual the dealer used had the same wrong torque specification for the head bolts, so you'd have the same problem again. They were good engines if they were fixed right, many were never fixed right by the Toyota dealers.

5. 88-94 trucks/4Runners with the 3VZ-E SOCH 3.0 V6 motor. Once again another turd, 150hp, popped headgaskets and was prone to catastrophic failure before 100k miles. If you were ever shopping for a truck/4Runner from this era, you'll notice A LOT of them had the whole engine replaced at some point in their lives. The 22RE 4 cylinder is a much better option, but with a heavy 4Runner its too much truck and not enough engine IMO.

mmarshall

Totally correct on the Echo. IMO, this car was a joke almost any way you looked at it...especially after the generally well-done Tercel. The Tercel's only real drawback was that it stuck with a dated 3-speed automatic transmission too long.