SteVTEC

Did I give them a free pass?

If that's your stance then I'm sure you're a huge fan of GM's pushrod-OHV V8 and no longer manufactured V6 engines, as those all fit the bill nicely. You don't need tons of cams or 8000rpm rev ceilings or tons of variable technologies or turbochargers. Just a nice simple BIG engine that can make all the power it needs without all of that, is extremely cheap and simple to manufacture in comparison to many other engines, and is still remarkably efficient.

anthrax144

Remarkably efficient? If that were the case they'd still be building them. You ignored the part we he said a "balanced" approach to fuel efficiency and performance. No doubt, the complexities of the German engines is hindering their reliability. They trade improved performance and fuel efficiency for reliability. That's not to say it's right or wrong - many people have decided it's a worthwhile trade-off and will continue to do so even with a negative report such as this. Consumers looking specifically for a long term, reliable car may be swayed to steer away from German cars though. Again, it's a trade-off. There is no right or wrong, just one consumer's preference vs another.

ISFPOWER

iTrader: (20)

the rich will buy and drive for the first couple or few years, then the next buyer will have the problems. I believe this is the reason why they will continue to sell units. makes enough sense. auto companies make their money off the first owners. why would these buyers continue buying ? because they never really had it long enough to have problems and even if they did, they have a full warranty. living in luxury and having little gadgets will never go out of style ,.

spwolf

You are right, they were never reliable, before turbo's either. But in Europe perception is that German cars are of highest quality (even if surveys have always said differently).

Another thing to point, for instance Toyota sells a lot of hybrids and turbo diesels in Europe, and yet they end up being #2. Mercedes has a lot of turbo's, and they are #3.

So clearly, it simply comes down to some manufacturers being more reliable than others.

SteVTEC

They do still build them, and they ARE efficient.

Chevy Camaro 6.2L V8 6MT: 16 city, 24 highway, 19 combined
BMW M3 (E92) 4.0L V8 6MT: 14 city, 20 highway, 16 combined
Lexus IS-F 5.0L V8 8AT: 16 city, 23 highway, 18 combined

And back in the day when the GM 3800 Series II/III engines competed with the Japanese 3.0L V6's, that 3800 still managed the best mileage in its class thanks to tons of torque and being able to pull super tall gears without a problem, and that same prodigious torque also gave them great drivability.

What's "imbalanced"?

SteVTEC

Of course, but all other factors being equal..... whatever's simpler is going to win. Less to go wrong.

CDNROCKIES

It specifically mentions the 996 911 which had a high number experience RMS issues. As a brand Porsche is excellent, but this particular model was suspect.

spwolf

its also built with worse materials and less time/care :-).

Lots of cheaper/simpler brands than Honda, Toyota, Mercedes...

And its not just engines either... similar things show in all various reports. For instance TUV does technical inspections and most germans (expect Porsche) do really not good where expensive cars should do good. Yet Honda and Toyota still up the top.

I think it is more of culture of the company thing than anything else.

But yeah, if we put it in that contest, within same company, simpler should be better, unless it is cheaper car. For instance, in Yaris you might have less enduring suspension and interior, but also less problems with engines.

I guess when we think about it, simple calls are not easy to make here :-).

LeX2K

I find this ridiculous. Take your average Toyota Corolla and drive it like you stole it, and the engine is still not going to fail. Sure it will probably wear out faster, but by then the car will likely have 200k+ miles anyway. If you pay top dollar for a premium performance car, the engine should most certainly not be delicate!

Plus you have absolutely no data to back up your theory, I know people with high end German cars that drive them like an old Granny on their way to church.

<VENOM>

Im sure you find everything ridiculous as is your actual post, but newer engines are lighter, the blocks are thiner, and they run at hotter temperatures, sure you can lease a car and drive it like you stole it but in reality the car is not gonna make it to 200k cause you have a friend who beats on a Corolla, actually my buddies 1st car which was a 90 something Corolla, bought used off a guy who said he babied it, died at 120k.

Don't believe what you read on the internet

mmarshall

I don't necessarily agree that it is a forced-induction issue, although it is true (somewhat less-so now than in the past) that turbos often did not last the life of the engine itself, often due to the use of inadquate oil or not following the proper start-up/shut-down procedures (i.e. longer idling). Many of the cases of engine fires in German-designed vehicles, though, were (and are) due to electronic defects, such as wiring harneses, failing cooling-fans/switches, engine-control computers, etc....

BoDarville

^^^^^ this. natnut thinks its still 1984

natnut

Still doesn't disprove the fact that German engines are the most unreliable. If not turbos, what is failing then?

Aren't turbos the least durable part of an engine?

UDel

Some of the biggest failures and issues with German engines now are the Direct Injection systems/HPFP. Audi, VW, Mercedes(have not read as many issues), BMW, Porsche, have a lot of problems with them and they cost tons of money to fix/replace/clean. Some companies are offering extended warranties but I have read Audi is denying claims in many cases leaving owners with huge bills. Cooling systems has also been a big problem with many German engines especially in the past.

UDel

The 3800's had great torque below 60mph but after that the Japanese engines were far superior, they were smoother in all gears too and did not have the reliability issues the 3800's had after you put some miles on them. My uncles Grand Prix would sputter back and forth which you could feel when you gave it gas, I noticed this on other Grand Prix's, fuel economy was not great and the engine had to be replaced twice before 100K miles. My grandmothers Bonneville pulled like a freight train below 60mph but it made very little power(a lot of noise though) above 70mph, I used to beat V8 Mustangs and Camero's all the time with it but it had its issues like fuel injection/starting problems where the Japanese engines were known to be pretty trouble free aside from the oil burning issues with the Toyota V6.